Author Topic: Funny init ( people in power abusing women and men)  (Read 348 times)

JLR2

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Funny init ( people in power abusing women and men)
« on: October 17, 2017, 08:58:14 AM »
I find it funny (not in a laughing way)  that given the news about the movie director Weinstein that no one in the media has spoken about how there are so many Weinstein's around outwith the movie world's casting couch. Not that long ago there was a story on the BBC about landlords offering to rent out a room to young women in return for sex, how many young women are faced with employers, actual and would be, who use the threat of the jobcentre with all its rules and sanctions, to pressurise them into non consensual sex?  That is to say these women are faced with the choice keep these bosses and would be employers happy through satisfying their demands or face the threat of homelessness, benefit sanctions and everything else today's Britain can throw in their face?

Maybe the BBC thinks the abuse of women by famous/powerful men only exists in Hollywood casting rooms.

edit to add to title and also add warning triangle :-) Sunshine
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 12:48:54 PM by SunshineMeadows »

SunshineMeadows

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 10:12:57 AM »
Good point  >thumbsup<

I think women aand men can be subject to harassment but women are more often in a weaker financial postion than tmen especially if they have children.


JLR2

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 10:29:56 AM »
''...but women are more often in a weaker financial position than men especially if they have children.''

And don't the Rigsby --like landlords know it, actually that has me thinking I'm sure I read, a wee while back, of a police officer who abused his position during the investigation of a young woman who had reported a serious sexual assault, he visited her at her home and in her vulnerable state raped her, well might there be some, very few I would hope, Jobcentre office staff bullies who see vulnerable women coming into their jobcentre women who these people would know everything about, their circumstances and pressures they are under, and whom they would think susceptible to a bullying of a sexual nature?

The thought is frightening.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 11:54:08 AM »
As a woman, I've been on the wrong end of it.

I will give an example with a happy outcome for me but a sad and not one-off scenario.

I was on a military exercise overseas  many aeons ago.  My key role was to organise transport for journalists and their escorts.  I was dead good at it because I learnt how to scrounge spare food for the drivers and to let them juggle their own shifts, thus I was never short of a driver when I needed one.

But one day I found myself alone with their warrant officer (sergeant major) in the back of what was essentially a mobile office (just another green truck on the outside).   It turned out he didn't want to speak to me about the transport, he took the view that he had seigneurial rights over all the women he regarded as being under his command.  I said no.  He grabbed me and I gave him a free demo of my martial arts prowess and left. 

But as I made my way back to my tent, I was intercepted by some drivers.  What had happened, they demanded to know.  To begin with, I was hesitant.  Then they explained that they knew something was going on but that none of the women would speak up, so I did.  They promised to protect the other women. 

I believe them because of what happened the next day.  When I went to leave the HQ I was working in to walk back to the main accommodation next to it, I was intercepted by the bloke on guard with some cock and bull story obviously delaying me.  Then for some reason one of 'my' drivers appeared and offered me a lift.  I thought he'd knocked off for the night and was puzzled.  After a couple of days it became clear.  I couldn't go anywhere alone without them watching over me.  If that WO tried to get near me, mysteriously there was always a sudden problem that needed sorting "Sorry to interrupt you sir, but we need..."  For the rest of that exercise, I was protected.  I realised the other women were being 'guarded' as well in relation to that WO. 

He was a nasty piece of work, but the reaction of those other soldiers is why I stuck it out in the TA for many, many more years.   It's not the only time something like that happened, and the one before got further, but it wasn't until then I knew that most of the men wouldn't put up with it.  I think it coloured my view of life that means that I tend to turn to those at the bottom of any organisation to sort problems out.  Too often, it's been a tendency I've taken too far when I should have gone to the top, but it was a very important lesson learnt about how far men will stick up for women. 

And in the army, I had a strong sense that it wasn't simply protecting the weaker sex, not least because I also learnt from it that the men there recognised that women were protecting them in turn.  Those men in the example I've given knew that it was me that made sure they got their rest and food.  But that can also be true of  men in the community, of men in a place of worship, of men anywhere.  The men that don't see women as there to be abused but women as there to be respected as part of the community.

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 12:07:29 PM »
There's something else I want to address.  You see, whilst I think that women are, generally, far more vulnerable to sexual exploitation and abuse than men, very sadly sometimes men are also on the end of it.  When we see a (female) prostitute, we may wonder whether she's on drugs, whether she's been coerced, trapped or trafficked into prostitution.  How many of us do that when we see a rent-boy?  For that matter, how far do we even notice rent-boys?  They exist, and ones that have been coerced into it or resorted to it in desperation exist.  But we don't even recognise them.

I only say this because a while back I saw a documentary about male war rape.  I then followed a couple of links to info on reputable sites.  What I found was that it's a major problem and that, for example, in some African war zones all the funding for post-rape counselling and surgery goes to women's groups whilst the men have nothing and are also socially excluded.  If any of you have the inclination and stomach for it, sometime look at the figures for war rape in wars closer to home, e.g. the break-up of the former republic of Yugoslavia.

Yes, yes, you're thinking, but that's war.  Ok, but if you don't see/hear/read much mention of male rape in the news about war, how much are you seeing it in other contexts?  And sexual abuse, intimidation etc?

In short, whilst I think that sexual abuse and exploitation of women by men is probably more prevalent than other sorts, and is partly predicated on major inequalities even in countries where women and men are supposedly equal, please don't forget that men can also be abused this way by men and also by women, and please don't forget that women can be abused by women.  Whichever it is, there can be such a big sense of shame.

And as a woman, my heartfelt thanks to every man that cares when another man abuses a woman or tries to abuse a women.  My heartfelt thanks to every man that tries to help or protect a woman.  Fellow women - what we can do in return, whilst accepting that this is mostly a man-abuses woman pattern, is to watch out for vulnerable men that need protecting and often experience higher shame and poorer facilities and do what we can for them. 
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

JLR2

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 12:40:37 PM »
I feel much of Army life is almost like a family life, we all see each other as family and look to do what we can to protect each other. some years back, in the early 90's, I was in a pub on the south side of Glasgow when another pub customer noticed the rank strap on my wrist. The rank strap is worn in short sleeve order to display a soldier's rank, Cpl, Sgt or whatever my strap actually had on it the cap badge of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, I wasn't in the Army long enough to earn any rank beyond Trooper, this guy quietly spoke to me asking if I wouldn't mind covering my strap as if someone had a grudge against the Army and looked to attack me he felt he had a duty to defend me as he too was ex-Army and in his book we (ex-Army folk)  look after each other. I did leave my jacket on after that little chat.

As much as we hear more and more these days of women being trained in front line roles in the military, indeed recently a woman passed the Royal Marine Commando selection test, I think many men still think of women with a sort of fatherly tone to their thoughts and it is this that has many not realising that men themselves can find themselves victims of sexual abuse and aggression. In the distant backroom of my memory I remember reading of a court case where a man had been raped by a woman, in the story it was asked how can a woman possibly rape a man?  as there needs in the man the necessary arousal before anything else happens. Well in the case I am referring to it was explained that when a man has a knife at his throat he will do anything to avoid the consequences as this man had to. The woman in the case was found guilty of rape and imprisoned.

Just thinking about this, it must be horrible for married soldiers who know of others in their barracks who do not know how to control their sexual behaviour when their squadron is away on a tour of duty or on an exercise, such as the armoured regiments Batus exercise in Canada, in another country with their wife is back in their UK base's married quarters.

Sunny I'm glad you had the courage to fight off the Sgt-Major.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2017, 01:16:21 PM »
The abuse I haven't known how to fight off in life was emotional.  I wish I'd been taught the right lessons at an early age.  The worst of it for me was being emotionally abused in the psychiatric system, and I'm not alone in that.  But I know from variously helping and caring for my demented father that it happens to men as well and to people in physical care as well as mental care.

I think this is where so many issues overlap, i.e. when people exploit vulnerable people and what is for me so utterly disgusting, when those whose job it is to protect then exploit instead.

I hadn't mentally linked the possibility of benefits problems specifically increasing vulnerability the way you raised and I feel so sad about it, recognising it as almost certain that there are people being taken advantage of and abused in that way.

A sudden memory, not of benefits, but of people.

Where  I grew up, someone set up a Women's refuge.  Back then, it was a novelty.  Sometimes men would stand outside and shout at the women to come out.  There might be several men there.  But in those days, the kids played in the street and also fewer people drove and more walked.  Those men were driven away time and again and gradually fewer turned up.  In particular, it's one thing for the sort of man that identifies being masculine with  being agressive and winning fights to try to argue with another man, or to intimidate his own wife, but it's not so easy when it's a couple of dozen kids ranging from pre-school upwards.  After all, you then don't just have to argue with the teenage lads, you've got the little one on its trike or scooter ramming your legs, telling you to go home because you're a nasty horrid man and those are their conkers you're treading on...
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2017, 01:25:44 PM »
It's also the us/them thing, then, isn't it?

I think that's one of the nastiest outcomes of selling off council housing, because you widen the social divides.  In all seriousness, if you give priority to the social housing for people with the most problems, social housing estates become 'problem' estates that others want to avoid.  Us and them.

I see it myself.  There are areas that shame me over my own snobbery.  But if housing is such that if, to take just one example, you're a young mum you end up being housed nowhere near your other relatives, who helps you, mentors you, supports you?  Then if you're not much of a mum, how easy to criticise you.  And then someone like me goes to some of those areas and thinks "I wouldn't want to live there, just look at the way they behave," and the divides remain.  I've lived in poor areas and rich areas and in-between areas.  I think where it probably works best community-wise is where there's a mixture of housing and therefore a mixture of people.

Sorry I'm off on tangents a lot at the moment, but a sudden memory of something.  I read something written by a youth worker who said that in  his experience, almost all the teenage mums he'd encountered had had a baby because they wanted someone to love them unconditionally.  I don't remember what he said about the dads but I've always supposed that a lot of them are the same.

But how terribly terribly sad to feel so unloved and  unaccepted that the only way you believe you will be loved and accepted is by having a baby, and then for society to reject you for it.

This isn't just about babies, though, is it?  It's about people that want jobs and can't get them but so desperately need to keep their pride that they brag to others they don't want a job and they're better off on benefits.  It's about people with hidden disabilities living in a society where they're so desperate not to be rejected, they continue to hide them, and the government ramps that up by leaving them worried about whether others will think they're cheating.

I suppose pulling together is all we can do.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2017, 09:40:32 PM »
***trigger warning***


Abuse is a hot topic for me, having experienced it in different ways in various situations, and its effects seem to be longstanding - earlier I was triggered by something in the final episode of ITV's latest hit drama 'Liar' (for those who haven't watched, it deals with 'date rape' and a horribly convincing and credible 'respectable' surgeon who has carried out repeated rapes of this kind and got away with it - until his latest victim fights back...)  Bum, now I've lost what I was going to say  >doh<  more tomorrow, if you're all lucky  ;-)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2017, 11:47:37 PM »
For me, it's pschological abuse that's worse.

Having said that, I saw physical and psychological abuse of a relative in a nursing home and simply removed them.  I didn't tell the CQC because past experience shows that it's a total waste of time.  I've complained about physical violence in an NHS hospital and if you're really lucky, they'll get rid of a token member of staff, but then they'll focus on covering up and pretending it didn't happen.  So whilst a lot of people, when traumatised, get help from the NHS, I've needed help from the traumas of being 'cared for' by the NHS.

Meanwhile, there are people who need help to cope with the psychological impact of unemployment, and now where does the government want to get it?  In, or via referral from, jobcentres, which would be fine if it weren't actually the system there that's the most traumatising part of being on the dole.

People need love and kindness and it's in short supply.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2017, 11:09:39 AM »
Quote
For me, it's pschological abuse that's worse.

Yes, and just try getting believed by those who are in a position to stop it - especially if you have a mental illness and therefore can be written off as a delusional nutjob who is just imagining/exaggerating the abuse  >angry< So in effect the victim/survivor is traumatised at least twice over. 

Quite honestly, I had a lot of work to do in forgiving certain authorities for their part in my distress, ie failing to protect me from the abuser(s) and even punishing me for trying to draw attention to what was happening.  It's actually still an ongoing process to some extent, demonstrated by my unexpected triggering last night, which I admit I got annoyed with myself for (after trauma-based one-to-one therapy earlier this year, aren't I supposed to be 'cured' of all that??)

Sorry you had to suffer at the hands of the NHS as well, Sunny; the psychiatric system has a lot to answer for...

>edit to amend
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 11:24:49 AM by KizzyKazaer »

SunshineMeadows

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Re: Funny init ( people in power abusing women and men)
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 01:02:25 PM »
Quote
I admit I got annoyed with myself for (after trauma-based one-to-one therapy earlier this year, aren't I supposed to be 'cured' of all that??)

 >heart<

Fiz

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Re: Funny init ( people in power abusing women and men)
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 04:41:33 AM »
Kizzy I had no idea there was such thing as one to one therapy for trauma based abuse. What is it called. My new Consultant was very surprised when I met him that almost certainly my depression was triggered/caused by my PTSD and yet therapy or treatment for my PTSD has never been explored because in his view, it it caused the depression then if you help reduce or manage the trauma symptoms then you ease and lessen the depression because you're working on the cause.

Fiz

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Re: Funny init
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 04:57:22 AM »
'
actually that has me thinking I'm sure I read, a wee while back, of a police officer who abused his position during the investigation of a young woman who had reported a serious sexual assault, he visited her at her home and in her vulnerable state raped her

Not quite. There have been a few occasions when police officers have had (consensual) sexual relationships with women they'd been assigned to support after the women had been raped by others. In all of these cases thankfully, the police officers were struck off for professional misconduct.

There was an awful case when a Hertfordshire policeman had several (5) sexual relationships with domestic violence victims and witnesses he'd been assigned to support. On one occasion, fathering a child with a victim. He was struck off and also sentenced to 3 years in prison. Should have many far more years than that imo.

Most of the policemen were married, including the Hertfordshire policeman.

JLR2

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Re: Funny init ( people in power abusing women and men)
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 08:44:55 AM »
Fiz, I think we are talking of the same cases as I was referring to but maybe it was just the newspaper headlines at the time that had me refer to these being rapes. As best as I can mind the papers were calling it rape as whilst the women involved were said to have given consent they were not in a stable state of mind to know what they were giving their consent to, in other words these were vulnerable women hence the description of these sex attacks by immoral police officers as rape.