Author Topic: ESA50 shambles  (Read 1247 times)

NeuralgicNeurotic

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ESA50 shambles
« on: October 04, 2017, 08:45:56 PM »
First of all, sorry for not having been around for a few weeks. Mum's health got bad again, followed by my mental health.

Then the Form of Doom arrived, with typically brilliant timing.  :-(

Saw advice worker on Monday (a new person I'd never previously met), to get form filled in. I was pretty distressed throughout (ended up needing a visit from out of hours GP), so probably wasn't able to communicate as well as usual, but having summoned the will to read over the photocopy of the completed form the advice worker gave to me (she has posted the original), there are some quite worrying errors in it.

As an example, in the section relating to 'Moving around and using steps', my wheelchair is described as 'self=propelling'. It's not, it's a manual chair. I was trying to describe my inability to self-propel in it when pain levels are high. 

There are omissions also. The full name of my diagnosis, for instance. If decision-makers and others are looking up conditions in a manual, it is vital that they have that information.

I am waiting to receive 2 additional pieces of medical evidence from regular GP, so will be having to send those in with a covering letter. Is it possible to correct errors in the form in the same way? I have often had to use extra sheets with previous ESA50s, to add things overlooked or forgotten in interview with the advice worker, but had the original form so that I could write in each relevant section something along the lines of 'Please refer to additional sheet 2'. Can such sheets be added without reference being made to them on the form?


Thanks in advance for any and all help or advice.   >bighugs<



>Edited to fix typo and poorly constructed sentence.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 10:14:49 AM by NeuralgicNeurotic »

Sunny Clouds

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 10:40:07 PM »
I can't see why not.  People take information in with them.  You could always phrase it that you've looked again at the form and realised that it's not clear.  E.g. the sentence that says "blah blah self-propelling wheelchair blah blah" should read "blah blah when I'm self-propelling my wheelchair, i.e. when I'm propelling my wheelchair myself blah blah"

Ditto the diagnosis.  You can say that it occurs to you that whilst your condition is generally and correctly called such-and-such, it may help the assessor to know that the specific type you have is called something-or-other such-and-such.

I also don't see why there'd be a problem correcting errors.  After all, it's perfectly normal to have help filling in the form and if part of what you're claiming for is a mental element, then the fact you missed the errors before the form was sent off is a perfect example of your impairments.

But of course Monic will be along in a moment with the bits you really need to know, the experience, and the caveats.  There are times when I wish I could shrink Monic, take her home, and put her on a shelf for instant reference whenever needed!

Monic1511

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 07:21:06 AM »
 >lol< Thanks for the vote of confidence.

NN
When you get the additional information do a covering letter saying that as you were very distressed when completing the form you were not aware of missed information and mis interpreted statements.  Then say my diagnosis is this, also if you self propel your manual chair be careful about saying how far you can go,   If the person completing the form has emphasised you difficulties it will be because they were trying to get you through without a medical.
See you later - work is waiting  >erm<

NeuralgicNeurotic

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2017, 08:38:31 AM »
Sunny and Monic, thank you both!  >rose< >rose<

Quote
also if you self propel your manual chair be careful about saying how far you can go

Monic, the information regarding distance has been accurately recorded. I just need to clarify that the chair is manual. Don't want to be accused of lying if information from my GP, physio etc contradicts what is written on the form!

I'll also add details of the GP who came out to the house, a copy of the scrip increasing some of my meds, and the name of the duty social worker who saw me at the hospital the night Mum was admitted.

Thanks again to both of you, and I hope your day at work is not too stressful/unpleasant Monic.  >bighugs< >bighugs<

Sunny Clouds

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2017, 01:14:01 PM »
Oh, for heaven's sake, Monic, NN has demonstrated that she is capable of self-propelling from the front door (whether the copy was brought home after seeing the adviser, or whether it dropped through her letter box) to wherever her computer is located.  That must be at least three metres and therefore she falls into the current technical category of 'just pretending she can't walk and I bet if we set up a hidden camera we'd find she's running marathons'.

Anyone would think you didn't understand that statutory provisions and judges' decisions are there to be overridden by political aims, private company profits, and the need to generate online tabloid clickbait.

 >run<

SunshineMeadows

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2017, 04:47:22 PM »
NN,

 >bighugs< I sent extra info after Mr Sunshine had his face to face assessment for PIP and the good result he got suggests to me that the Decision maker did read it and take it into account

I am the first one to say my grammar is not very good but in terms of the ESA form is selfpropelling being used as a noun and verb.

Selfpropelling wheelchair - a chair that needs to be pushed by the person sitting in the seat.

as opposed to say,

Electric wheelchair - moves using battery powered wheels.

When used as a verb and example would be,

Pain restricts my ability to self propel the wheelchair.


Sunny,

LOL I wish French and Saunders would commission you to write a script for a one off DWP special show

Sunny Clouds

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2017, 09:09:26 PM »
I'd love to do that sort of thing.

Humour is very important to me as a way of coping and also, seeing the effect the P45 had on Theresa May and the Conservative Party, I wish we had more of it politically.

NeuralgicNeurotic

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 10:05:37 AM »
Quote
in terms of the ESA form is selfpropelling being used as a noun and verb.

Selfpropelling wheelchair - a chair that needs to be pushed by the person sitting in the seat.

as opposed to say,

Electric wheelchair - moves using battery powered wheels.

When used as a verb and example would be,

Pain restricts my ability to self propel the wheelchair.

Sort of. Self-propelling is use as an adjective  - 'my chair is self-propelling', then propelling is used as a verb. It's more the context of the entire paragraph that gives rise to confusion.

My need to be accompanied when out is being disussed. I was trying to get across that because of the strain that self-propelling places on my abdominal muscles and pelvic floor, pain can quickly escalate to unmanagable levels, so someone needs to be on hand to take over and help when that happens.

What's written is that I need someone to help "even though the chair is self-propelling", which I think creates the impression that the chair is electric rather than manual.

Aargh! It's so hard not to get anxious about every little detail.

NeuralgicNeurotic

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 10:54:41 AM »
OK, time to stop tying myself in knots over this. Would giving a straightforward list of my mobility equipment, describing my wheelchair as manual (self-propelling) be the best way to let the DM know that the two terms are synonymous?


>Edited to remove repetition.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 12:51:42 PM by NeuralgicNeurotic »

Sunny Clouds

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2017, 01:06:14 PM »
I think the difficulty here is that we each have our own way of doing things.

I like the list idea.  I'd want also to refer to specific questions it's relevant to, but I'm rather obsessive-compulsive about these things and it and it's not necessarily as important as I tend to take it as.

A thought occurs, though.  I don't have a smartphone, but if you do, would your wheelchair and other equipment be photographable?  If so, then sending the list with a picture/pictures might make you feel less like what you're sending in might sound like "what that said wasn't right" and more like "I thought this would help the decision maker to see what I meant".

But it's only an idea.

SunshineMeadows

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 02:04:02 PM »
The information on this link might help https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/help-with-your-esa-claim/fill-in-form/1-moving-around-using-steps/

Quote
It's important you tell the DWP more by explaining your situation in the box.

Now I have seen that I can remember how I also got in knots about how to answer that section of the form. Now I have the electric power assist wheels I might just say electric wheelchair next time if there is a next time  >x-fingers< for getting listed as never being able to work ..... shesh what a thing to wish for, but then again it is factual.


 >bighugs< >bighugs< >bighugs< >chocolate< >chocolate< >chocolate< >apple<

Sunny Clouds

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 03:09:49 PM »
I'm now thinking of my PIP form.  So much more I could have said.  Nothing ever seems enough, does it?  We spend so much of our lives trying to explain to people what our difficulties are.  Come to think of it, we spend so much of our lives playing them down.  It can seem no-win.  We live in a society (I'm thinking of the UK, which is where we mostly are, but I think there are overlapping issues where Huhn is) where it's the done thing not to make a big issue of being disabled, so saying "I have this problem, I have that problem, I need this sort of help/equipment, I need that sort of help/equipment" goes against what we're acculturated to do.

KizzyKazaer

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2017, 05:36:41 PM »
Quote
We spend so much of our lives trying to explain to people what our difficulties are.  Come to think of it, we spend so much of our lives playing them down.  It can seem no-win. 

Isn't that the truth - very well put, Sunny...  I think that's why ESA and PIP claims can be so draining and distressing  >erm<  I personally loathe having to concentrate on the shite stuff, being a 'play-downer' after years of 'conditioning' to be that way!

NN, wishing you the very best with the Form of Doom, and sorry to read that you and mum have both had a downturn in health of late  - plenty of  >chocolate< and  >bighugs< winging their way in your direction..

NeuralgicNeurotic

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 09:32:27 PM »
Quote
I'd want also to refer to specific questions it's relevant to, but I'm rather obsessive-compulsive about these things and it and it's not necessarily as important as I tend to take it as.

I'd prefer to be able to do that too, but as the form has already been posted, I'm going to ask that the info is linked to the 'Other information' section on page 17 of the form.

Photographs would be good, but they are listed in the 'Things we don't need to see' part of the form explaining what medical evidence is. On the other hand so are appointment letters, and I've sent plenty of those anyway (how else are you supposed to prove that you are attending/have attended various departments or practitioners?).


Sunshine - that's a great link. Thank you!  >rose<

Quote
getting listed as never being able to work ..... shesh what a thing to wish for, but then again it is factual.

 >hugs< The advice worker suggested that I should really be in that category, too. Not the nicest thought, but probably true.  :-(

Kizzy - thank you for the hugs and choccie. Much appreciated!
 

 >bighugs<


>Edit for repeated word.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 07:48:28 AM by NeuralgicNeurotic »

Sunny Clouds

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Re: ESA50 shambles
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2017, 11:13:28 PM »
Re 'things we don't need to see'.

Stuff that.  If you want them to see something, send it to them; if you don't want them to see something, then unless they've specifically asked to see it, don't send it to them.

If you're not sure whether to send something, then my gut feeling would be:-

If you've got it there or could get it easily & cheaply or could type it;
And
If you feel it would help you to put your case across;
And
You've no reason to suppose it would harm your case

Send it.

And if you don't send it and because of it you don't get your benefits - you can still use it to appeal.

Besides, being cynical, even if you prove your case 100%, it's a bit of a lottery whether you'll get it without an appeal anyway, so I strongly recommend anguishing less than I do.  (I'm very good at 'do as I say, not as I do'.)

 >bighugs< >bighugs<