Author Topic: Sheltered housing - red faces for government  (Read 308 times)

Sunny Clouds

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Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« on: October 23, 2017, 11:06:28 AM »
In case anyone hasn't read it, there's another problem for the government.  A little while back, it said that people who get a bit extra on their housing benefit to cover the extra cost of being in sheltered housing would no longer get it.

I saw what was happening where I live, where already the loss of Supporting People funding had led to the closure of a hostel for people with severe mental illness and alcohol problems that had been there for as long as I could remember, i.e. over half a century.  But where do these people go?  Some of them are sleeping in the graveyard.  (That's not a euphemism for dead, I mean they're living rough.)

Meanwhile, the government just announced that it's going to be borrowing some money to build more new houses, especially for old people...and the housing associations and charities pounced.  They pointed out that they have been closing places in anticipation and that 85% of new sheltered housing has been shelved, including housing for old people.

Do I see another government U-turn?

Please, please let this be the point at which they back off from some of these 'reforms' in the name of 'austerity'.

Monic1511

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 03:33:51 PM »
Sunny
That's the rollout of universal credit that is causing the problem. Under UC the housing element is restricted to the same as the local housing allowance, so if you're single in my area your maximum housing element is 80.55/week, if your sheltered housing wants 125/week then you need to make up the shortfall. Also remember under UC there is no additional disability premiums, your UC is the same as every other poor beggar on UC.
Government says that this is what the discretionary housing budget is for but they cut that budget and it's already being used to cover the bedroom tax.

It's the whole way UC has been written and housing charities have been lobbying since the legislation came out several years ago.
No u turn likely just like the 6 week wait, that's how it was designed and as it was policy prior to the election they can say folk voted for it, you and I know folk are stupid till it afffects them directly.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 04:31:28 PM »
Yes, I know it's the rollout of UC.  What did you think I meant?  Yet another kick to people while they're down.

I wonder where the government expects people to end up?  Yes, some will die for want of help with all the cuts, and I daresay there are a lot of politicians that have bought into the notion that there are too many fakers and scroungers, but even so?  Does it expect people to be ok with all the extra homeless people on the streets?

Round here, they try to deal with them with public space protection orders, but those only work so long as you only get them in the 'nice' areas and drive people into the grotty areas, but when those are full?

They have this problem in America and they're stumped.  It's getting more and more like the Great Depression for them.  Out come the Woody Guthrie songs as the tents get torn down by officials, a few enjoying it, a few sad, mostly by now just numbed by it.

What's supposed to happen to the profitable bits of the economy (i.e. profitable to politicians' mates) when the purple pound collapses?

Well if they don't care about working age disabled people who they think don't vote (and in the case of a significant chunk of those they're targetting probably don't) let them target the oldies and lose their voting base.

Having said that, I just looked on the Labour website.  They're still doing the 'agree with UC in principle' thing.  My Labour MP does a big thing about helping people with benefits appeals, but could he be bothered to vote to protect sick and disabled people's rights?  He doesn't even bother to attend Westminster half the time, much less vote. 

So for me, I'm really hoping that UC will be May's poll tax, but I see it in the context of cut after cut after cut.  Take away the support element of the HB when you migrate to UC whilst, as you point out, taking away the premiums of 78 or so, on top of taking away all the other funding, closing the day centres, cutting funding for various bits of the health services etc.

May I rant about Brexit and EU funding?  Never mind whether we should have voted in or out (I'm a remainer, or is that a 'remoaner') the pro-brexit politicians encouraged people to think there'd be more money for the NHS, and May's vague about what any financial benefit might go to instead, but that leaves lots of projects in deprived areas all round the country that are going to lose their European Social Fund grants and European Regional Development Fund grants.  People barely know what's going to hit them in deprived areas.  Closure of facilities they didn't realise the EU funded.  That's on top of other closures from other cutbacks.

Do the politicians expect people to die quickly and tidily at home not on the streets, granny-dumped in hospital or whatever?  I'd love to seek volunteers to be granny-dumped in parliament.  Imagine if, say, 1000 elders were granny-dumped outside the Houses of Parliament.  But it would have to be feisty volunteers.  Plus those with literally no support and dying therefore nothing to lose.  If I'd thought of it, I'd have willingly granny-dumped Dad there when he was past knowing what was happening to him: he'd have been no worse off.  (They told me they were discharging him when he couldn't walk, had barely any functioning brain left, was doubly incontinent, was in terminal kidney failure, could barely swallow and was expected to die within hours or at most days.  That's after I'd been waiting 5 months for the CCG to get off its backside and start assessing him for NHS continuing care funding.  I'm not joking.)

Sorry I'm so ranty.  I alternate between scared and angry.

auntieCtheM

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 05:02:39 PM »
*hugs*

What can we do.  I'm afraid that that the only person I can granny dump is me, and I am not a granny. 

Monic1511

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2017, 05:23:53 PM »
I'm scared and angry as well but as a WRO have been aware of these policies since uc was proposed. If you're aware of all the hidden cuts good cos many are not, to them any review of welfare must be good because they believe the ethos of " the welfare state will always support the needy" ha ha ha fat chance now.
All the press about the hardship caused by the six week wit was met with derision as it must just be these idiots own fault they are in hardship.  As for it turning into poll tax , that's why the roll out is starting in vulnerable communities and rural ones first. In Scotland Glasgow is last to go full service,
The whole thing is just waiting on a spark.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 05:33:25 PM »
Sorry - with hindsight, I sounded like I was snapping at you.  I didn't mean to.  I'm just snappy about the whole subject.

I don't think even when I was well I could have done what you're doing.  I worked in the field of advice for many years, both paid and voluntary, including CAB, but I'd struggle to do your job without sobbing.  I've also done lots of other voluntary work helping people on their uppers, done some hardcore fundraising (over a million pounds worth of grants for help for deprived people), and had a long career as a Territorial Army bureaucrat and combat med tech (= paramedic).

But the thing that would get to me with what you do is the sense that there's no safety net.  Every context in which I've advised or helped, there's been some sort of way of getting extra help.  What the expletive is there for you to offer people?  Even when you fill the forms in correctly, there's no guarantee.

On other hand, as I type this, you do offer them one thing, Monic - validation.  You can reassure them that it's not their fault, that they're not undeserving, that they haven't done anything wrong.  If you can do that, at least you can reduce the psychological pain  regardless of whether you can get them enough money or not.  That is in no way to suggest that you are not able to achieve a lot in terms of getting people the financial or practical help they need, but simply a comment that even for those that you can't, you can give them that one thing.

Monic1511

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2017, 08:42:19 PM »
I get incredibly frustrated when I can't help someone and often resort to muttering curses when someone tells me they are on UC. One client got quite concerned but as I am not in a full service area I can, with a lot of work get people back onto legacy benefits with a view to triggering disability premiums for them. I still badger one claimant who refuses to sign his sdp form because "I'm happy with what I have, hen."  >steam< >crying<.

If I can't get crisis grants I then pass them to the mp who gets the pa to phone dwp and it's sorted quickly.
I might not be around much as on annual leave this week and I'm trying to relax a bit
I always make them laugh and they all know their mp or msp phone number, I do get told off for telling them that the mp is useless changing policy - both are snp! But I have to learn I can't save everyone and that's soul destroying.
I know you're concerned and it's fine to be snappy, I just wish the in work benefit claimants would wake up to the hell that is UC and is coming there way in the very near future.

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2017, 09:20:07 PM »
Quote
..I might not be around much as on annual leave this week and I'm trying to relax a bit

You make sure you do just that - now go from here.  Vamoose!  ;-)

NeuralgicNeurotic

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2017, 09:54:16 PM »
Quote
I might not be around much as on annual leave this week and I'm trying to relax a bit

Wishing you plenty of R and R.  >chocolate<

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 11:31:11 PM »
Monic - you have most definitely earned a relaxing break. 

 >bighugs<

Dark_Divinity

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2017, 05:23:18 PM »
Is this a case of mismanagement and lack of power to redirect finances or something else instead?

Could this be one of a number of actions to lower costs and increase the efficiency of the general population where a large percentage are the workers generating the GDP?

If they can find a solution to support the  groups that need little support to achieve the target of generating the wealth while taking little out then they will benefit from allowing these people to exist.

A parasite prefers a host that is functioning and in prime health as it can feed off the host for longer without problems that could result in early termination of the feeding.

Interesting thread, which makes me think about the ends of functioning for people with disabilities and the grey area inbetween where you are expected to somehow compensate to bring yourself more in-line with people who are more physically/mentally/neurotypical able.

Perhaps they are reducing support to force the more able (deemed more able) of us to either cope somehow or go off the deep end (become more disabled/less functioning) when more pressure to fit in is applied and quietly reduce the number of the less disabled people (who need more support to be more independent) who aren't living  their own homes and managing their bills, lives and in work.

To me this suggests a covert eugenicist agenda to stream-line the population which is camouflaged by a facade of apparent Government incompetency.

That way they get to tax the workers who generate the wealth, give back less of that money to the people and services they support them. They get to keep more of our money and make the wealth gap widen.



« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 05:30:33 PM by Dark_Divinity »
July 2017- Autism Spectrum Condition.

June 2012 -Hypothyroidism.

Dark_Divinity

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2017, 06:06:10 PM »
I have just remembered the original comment I was going to make. Perhaps they are reducing support and increasing the pressure in the hope that the problem solves itself.

E.g. Restricting access of housing so that vulnerable people are housed next to volatile people.
Isolated people with hidden disabilities in an area where there are tensions and divisions within the types of people in the area. People with a disability getting targeted by another person with a different type of disability . Disability Hierarchy and people who are lashing out at an easy target because they aren't getting support in the way they need. They don't like the other person because their disability isn't bad like theirs is and really we know they are just playing to system. Scapegoat someone  who you don't think will fight back and because they appear to not have a disability which is easily visually identifiable.


Pitting people against each other, kill two birds with one stone. It is a very nasty yet clever, manipulative and imaginative problem solving
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 08:30:17 PM by Dark_Divinity »
July 2017- Autism Spectrum Condition.

June 2012 -Hypothyroidism.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2017, 06:41:05 PM »
One of the best explanations of what's going on that I've seen for quite some while.

Dark_Divinity

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2017, 08:38:53 PM »
Then there are the non-disability issues that feed into the disability issue like the financial and social positioning of your family, living in the right area in the right country and ad infinitum.

Expectations of people to reach for the stars with no support just because they can speak clearly to the point of intelligence articulation, clean teeth and dress themselves.

All of the above is all well and good until you are pushed into a job where you are ultimately let go because you don't fit in with the social scene. Good enough to be used as a Temp Retail Dogsbody then discarded but not socialable, feminine, bitchy/backstabby, chatty/trivial, hang around preening/chatty cake eating while I should be working to keep on any longer. Good job I am not stupid or over-enthusiatic about taking on a private flat or room in house share.

Subjecting people to the Ablist bullying anf brainwashing in order to "encourage" them to minimise (get rid of) their disability to help themselves (stop being a annoying burden to society) to be positive ( have a good cry/sensory related meltdown in your own home away from people) and acheive your potential (get so stressed out that you remove yourself from this planet in a quiet and tidy manner).

So either implode and either do something to yourself or lock yourself in a dark, quiet room with all the windows blocked out so you can't see out and nobody can see in (paranoid) until you either lose your job or miss important meeting and lose benefits.

Or explode trash the office, hurt someone and get put in prison. >steam<

« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 08:50:14 PM by Dark_Divinity »
July 2017- Autism Spectrum Condition.

June 2012 -Hypothyroidism.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Sheltered housing - red faces for government
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2017, 09:27:07 PM »
You mention bullying.  By coincidence, I've been doing a lot of thinking today, and a couple of other days in recent weeks, about how much I was bullied at school, at home, in work, in the psychiatric system etc. and how I've struggled to deal with it.  It's the biggest deterrent to trying to get back to work.

In my case, my current focus is looking back and asking how I could have handled things differently, thinking if one day I might get back into work, how I could stand up for myself better, but as I read what you write, something occurs to me.  The sorts of schools a lot of the front-line politicians went to were competitive and probably had a lot of bullying.  It's very easy, I think, if someone succeeds at a school like that for them to be dismissive of those that didn't.  After all, they may be ambivalent about admitting to others that they didn't just better the the weaker pupils: in some situations, they destroyed them.

I don't know how to get across to politicians like that, to people like that, that people are a valuable resource to be looked after, that a society that looks after everyone has the potential to be most successful, and, quite bluntly, most profitable.  It's all very well treating people badly, but if they did that with the machinery in their factory or call centre, they'd go bust.