Author Topic: UC - embarassing the government  (Read 836 times)

Sunny Clouds

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UC - embarassing the government
« on: October 03, 2017, 02:06:28 PM »
Let's suppose UC does, as expected, cause misery, cold, hunger and evictions over Christmas and New Year and onwards.

I reckon the only thing that might cause the government to backtrack would be embarassment.  I reckon the only way to achieve that now is to persuade a foreign NGO (big charity) or wealthy group's benevolence to very visibly help people.

But who'd embarass the government most?

Red Crescent?  (=Red Cross in Muslim countries)
I'm not sure what they call the the one with the red star of David.  I've never heard it actually called Red Star of David.

I wonder whether the Saudi royals have a fund of some sorts.  Or other oil-rich countries.  Bahrain?

EU countries wouldn't be a good idea, and I'd hesitate over Russia not because I don't think it would be effective but because there's so much hidden suffering there.

Scandinavian countries?  That would be plausible.   It could even buy into the Alt Right demographic as they help 'people like us' not 'people like them' if they reckon those being helped are blond Northern Europeans.

I reckon best of all would be some sort of Jewish-Muslim charitable alliance.  That would really, really mess up those trying to turn our politics into hate one or the other.  Oops!

Maybe topped up with some American Evangelical Christian funding doled out by a range of very boring British churches. 

Seriously, though, whilst it might seem like fantasy, I think it's help that could work politically as well as alleviating poverty and distress.

Who you'd tell, though, is something else.  I wish I had political connections.  My Dad's mate was a prime minister, but they're both dead and gone now.  I'm just a nobody with no connections.

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

auntieCtheM

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 07:57:19 PM »
Wonderful idea.

JLR2

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 08:05:42 PM »
I did try, a few years back, when I was over in Berlin talking to some Jewish people but all I was told was that most Jews in Berlin now were Russian Jews and they had no interest either in what the Nazis did during the war nor how the UK government were treating the UK's disabled rather they were predominantly concerned with their investments (money).  The man I spoke with was very polite and in no way arrogant or offensive, he just explained in a straightforward manner how things are nowadays in Berlin.

Prior to my having that chat I had phoned a while before then a Rabbi in Glasgow but I only got so far as confirming to him that I was not of the Jewish faith and that was that he told me he could not, or maybe it was would not, continue with our phone call and we said our cheerios. Pity really.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 09:51:12 PM »
The contrast with that is an old friend of mine (sadly no longer capable of communicating) whose London synagogue has spoken out pretty strongly about the treatment of disabled people, and one of their Rabbis drew explicit analogies between Nazi anti-disabled propaganda and propaganda here.

So many people think you shouldn't draw those analogies as they take it as meaning you're saying we're about to have a holocaust.  But it seems to me that it doesn't have to be a full-blown holocaust for people to say we should learn lessons to avoid cruelty and harm.

Having said that, I admire any Jews that stick their heads above the parapet at the moment unless they're very rich or well-connected, because there's an understandable fear that the current venom and vilification towards other groups could turn on them.  Also, you've got certain Israeli politicians going all-out with propaganda that any criticism of Israel equates to antisemitism, which again gets ordinary Jews caught in the middle.

So one thing I really admire my friend's synagogue for is that they work with a mosque and a church to feed hungry people, with a mixture of hot food and food parcels. 

I wish I didn't feel so utterly powerless.

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

JLR2

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 09:59:23 PM »
''So many people think you shouldn't draw those analogies as they take it as meaning you're saying we're about to have a holocaust.  But it seems to me that it doesn't have to be a full-blown holocaust for people to say we should learn lessons to avoid cruelty and harm.''

That's what's missing the understanding that many are not talking or suggesting that we are about to suffer a Holocaust but the lessons have not been learnt nor understood.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 10:23:19 PM »
It's partly because politicians would rather we didn't.

We've actually been very sheltered in this country since WW2.  But we were also hidden from what the war cost.  We're told over and over again about how many people the Nazis killed.  I say to people I know "We know about mass deaths of Jews, Gypsies, disabled, homosexuals etc. under the Nazis, we know about mass deaths of Chinese and others under the Japanese, we know about mass deaths in Stalinist Russia, although generally in less detail...but how much do we get told about the deaths from disease and hunger of German POWs in Allied-run camps after the war or of the 3 million deaths in the Bengali famine because Churchill said the 'sturdy Greeks' should be fed instead as he turned down offers of food supplies for the Bengalis from the Americans and Russians?"

But then how much do we get told of, just to take Bengalis again, the 10-15 million who previously starved under British rule?  That's the tip of the iceberg.  For centuries, British royalty, politicians, rich people and private companies, all networked in together, have murdered, tortured and turned into slaves, whether officially or de facto, untold numbers of people around the world.

We have been so extraordinarily lucky that those powerful people found it expedient for a couple of generations to be fairly nice to ordinary British people.   
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Monic1511

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 11:17:59 PM »
If you look at the roll out of UC you will notice that the roll out starts in rural areas rather than cities, mainly because there are less people to complain, less support networks and less public transport so the moaners cant easily get together.  Glasgow is the last Scottish area to go full service in Scotland - Inverness, East Lothian & Inverclyde were before that.  This is why peoples compare it to the poll tax, it was only when London Manchester Liverpool started to rebel that the government noticed, they'd ignored the moaning Scots beforehand.

As for the charities - all you need is to rabble rouse the atheist campaigners who will tell you that religion has no place in politics and the church should just do their thing and shut up.  Salvation Army, Church of England, Church of Scotland and the Catholic church are already being affected by the rising demand for food parcels, clothing, starter packs for homes.  When UC and the restrictions on housing element come in it will be worse.  Under UC in a full service area you have to claim UC even if you are homeless BUT your housing element is restricted to the local housing allowance (between 65.35 and 80.55/week in my area)  A homeless flat costs 194/week and supported accommodation is similar and often more expensive.   The landlords of these places will have to refuse to house people because they know there is no way someone would be able to meet the rent shortfall as its often more than their living amount.
All the charities have written to the government but have been told that the shortfall will come from the discretionary housing funds given to local authorities - this budget is being cut as well.

What will embarrass the government - only when leafy home counties has homeless folk sleeping on the streets of affluent places and it affects their own.

The tories have always been near to national socialisim in my view because they believe the same mantra of work sets you free. there is a job for everyone, etc. While 99%can do some work there is not an Employer for everyone because employers tend to be capitalists not socialist and therefore need to make a profit.
 >dove< rant over (for now)
Monic

Sunny Clouds

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 12:09:26 AM »
At least when I come here, I feel less alone with my views about these things.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

auntieCtheM

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 03:48:30 AM »
These are not 'views', they are observations with a firm grip on reality.

JLR2

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 08:07:25 AM »
''Under UC in a full service area you have to claim UC even if you are homeless''

Funny that, I've yet to see anyone sleeping/homeless on the streets sitting in any doorway typing away on their PC World laptop as they apply for UC.

''The tories have always been near to national socialism in my view because they believe the same mantra of work sets you free.''

Just about the only lessons the Tories learnt from the Second World War.  This week a newspaper reviewer on Sky News was giving his definition of terrorism and I found myself thinking that he could so easily have been describing the Tories welfare policy as it is pretty much a form of terrorism targeted at disabled welfare benefit claimants. It has no other purpose, certainly cutting 12bn from the welfare budget is not going to sort out the country's deficit though you could be forgiven if you thought it would given the determination the upper echelons of the DWP to force through UC.

huhn

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2017, 08:23:28 PM »
''Under UC in a full service area you have to claim UC even if you are homeless''

Funny that, I've yet to see anyone sleeping/homeless on the streets sitting in any doorway typing away on their PC World laptop as they apply for UC.


that makes me laugh, typical  politician.

Offworld

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but of course no UC or pension worries for some.....
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 08:32:40 PM »
" Mandarin who pushed through rises in state pension age calls time on his career at age 61 with retirement pot worth 1.8million "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4970738/Mandarin-oversaw-pension-age-rise-retires-61.html
Quote
    Sir Robert Devereux retiring as the chief civil servant in pensions department
    He pushed through the rise in the pension age to 68, but will step down at 61
    Sir Robert has the biggest pension pot in Whitehall at a staggering 1.8m

KizzyKazaer

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2017, 09:24:47 PM »
Oh, so he won't have to phone the UC helpline at up to 55p a minute, then.... >doh<

JLR2

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2017, 08:35:43 AM »
''Oh, so he won't have to phone the UC helpline at up to 55p a minute, then...''

Aye but the poor soul will be worrying about the news from some Tory woman, I can't mind her job title, who was telling folk their home should not be looked on as an asset and that home owners should expect to sell their home to pay for their healthcare. On that issue I'd love to hear what Peter Bone MP (Tory)  thinks of her idea given his mother-in-law gifted her home to her daughter just before she moved into the care home she now resides in at taxpayers expense.

Offworld

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Re: UC - embarassing the government
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2017, 02:42:09 PM »
"Nudge" is a technique overtly adopted by the Cameron government (which set up a Nudge Unit) with regard to so-called "behavioral economics" -- in other words a system of manipulation, brainwashing, fragmentation, intimidation and other coercion of the public into compliance with what best suits those who rule and their big-corporate masters.
Chicago University economist Richard Thaler was recently awarded a Nobel prize for devising and pimping such poison. One of his main assistants in such infliction is Cass Sunstein -- husband of Samantha Power, who was the Obama regime's lead warmonger at the UN.
These techniques, in all but official name, were already being applied in the UK via the cultist doctrines of Unum, imposed through a welfare/work/'health' agenda which that company boasts of having largely devised... 
With the likes of Cooper remaining prominent in the Labour Party, Purnell now head of BBC radio, and Unum still not having been disowned and denounced by the alleged opposition in parliament, the overall situation in that respect seems unlikely to change for the better despite any vague or ambiguous utterances to the contrary by Labour's present leadership.