Author Topic: A new area of propaganda from this government  (Read 5984 times)

JLR

  • Gardening Leave
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1902
A new area of propaganda from this government
« on: March 20, 2012, 08:55:28 AM »
So the Chancellor intends to give income taxpayers a breakdown of their tax bill, where the money raised is spent, from what they were saying both this morning on the BBC's Breakfast news and in the newspaper reviews last night this move is almost certainly politically motivated.

It would come into effect in 2014, a year if that before the next general election, this being to persuade voters that the government's benefits cut backs are justified the inference being that to vote Labour would see their income tax rising to pay for the Welfare bill.

It could also see an increasing number of attacks on disability benefit claimants. Sorry folks but I find myself once again comparing this government with the Nazi's. I intend to phone down to the Speakers Office to ask for detail of who it is I need to contact to question this overt use of government funding for political ends. Someone has to be paying the costs of these new, 'How we spend your income tax' reports don't they?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 11:54:26 AM by JLRRAC »

Becca7

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1293
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2012, 10:20:25 AM »
I dont see the point at all. Ignoring the welfare part you mention for a moment. This must be paid for - how? It will just cause bitterness and resentment. I knew someone who felt they had the right to bother local police (about mundane things) because they pay x in council tax towards the force and want their 'money worth' (they got charged in the end). The trouble is people see things as belonging to them personally.

NeuralgicNeurotic

  • Charter Member and Volunteer
  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7237
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2012, 10:32:55 AM »
Exactly Becca. It's the consumer mentality every government has sought to inculcate since 1979. 

SunshineMeadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7367
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 10:44:41 AM »
Quote
So the Chancellor intends to give income taxpayers a breakdown of their tax bill,

Will this include everything eg remember we had a thread recently talking about the restaurants in the House of Lords and how much their expenses were?

I suspect seeing a comparison of how much was spent on foreign wars, IT projects eg like the one for the NHS which was scrapped, and also subsidies given to private companies will all make Joe Public more inclined to thing why were the sick and disabled made out to be the greatest drain on society.


Fizzbw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 10:45:44 AM »
But it could  backfire spectacularly on them! Surely We'd all see the amounts used to spend on never ending pointless wars! And other things, that get more money spent of them than the things people find right. For every person who thinks the welfare bill is too large, there will be others who think that the bill for failed IT projects, defence, or consultants who come into parliament to tell them how to best use pencils or some such is way too big. And how much we pay for the politicians themselves ( and their moats, or Camerons massive house, or their Chilean wine)....

Or are they going to fudge those accounts as well?

Fizzbw

Fizzbw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 926
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 10:46:53 AM »
Sunshine, cross posted, glad we are thinking along the same lines, believe me, we won't be the only ones, and we need to make sure we show as many people as possible...

FXxxx

Becca7

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1293
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 10:49:19 AM »
Stupid question of the day: what changed in 1979 to bring in this mentality? Tory government by chance? Its an odd concept to me. Even though im too young to remember anything else.

lankou

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 10:53:35 AM »
So the Chancellor intends to give income taxpayers a breakdown of their tax bill,

Fullfact has already done so with spreadsheet for personal circumstances:-

http://fullfact.org/blog/budget_2012_survival_guide-6688

NeuralgicNeurotic

  • Charter Member and Volunteer
  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7237
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2012, 10:56:51 AM »
Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister in May 1979. I just about old enough to remember the look on my Dad's face. To say it wasn't happy would be putting it mildly.

Becca7

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1293
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 11:07:53 AM »
Ah. Enough said re 1979. I think we can safely recognise certain aspects of spending wont be made available. You know the stuff like war expenditure etc for our own good. It will be placed under 'misc'.  Basically embarassing for gov = misc. Everything else? Fair game!

oldtone27

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2565
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 11:12:51 AM »
Judging by the sample HMRC form in the Daily Express it won't go into anything like that detail, only very general. I am sure its main purpose is propaganda, but it is also logical as local authorities now do this in respect of council tax.

The problem is that 'welfare' is shown as one huge slice. If it were broken down into its components (i.e. pensions, child benefit, unemployment benefit, and disability benefit say) I wonder what impression that would give.

The figures in the fullfact blog don't really compare with the HMRC (latter much larger) so I suspect they are not measuring the same thing. I'm not clear what?

SunshineMeadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7367
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2012, 11:44:14 AM »
Fizz  >thumbsup<

Oldtone,
I had not read any of the articles when I posted so I Googled for more information and can see what you mean I hope the people are not so silly as to believe the pie chart if it is like the illustration the Guardian showed. I have attached the pictures from the article so they are easier to view  >attachment<

Quote
But it's only part of the story. It doesn't tell you how much you paid in VAT (now equal to the amount the government obtains from national insurance), and there's not a word about petrol duty or council tax.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/blog/2012/mar/20/income-tax-statement-government-spending-scrutiny?newsfeed=true

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326718-personal-tax-statement-25000-1.html#document/p2

It is worth taking a look at the information on this link
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100407010852/http:/www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/435.pdf

I copied a chart from page 8  >attachment<

edit> because first two attachments came out small use the second link
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 11:47:39 AM by SunshineMeadows »

oldtone27

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2565
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2012, 12:22:34 PM »
The table in the Guardian does show a breakdown which is informative. As I suspected pensions amounts to over 40% of the welfare element. I was surprised the disability and health was the next largest component at 18%.

Regard the comment on VAT etc. I understand it is planned to show a breakdown of that. I guess this is going to be more difficult to tie to an individual's spending.

hossylass

  • Guest
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2012, 01:24:28 PM »
I think this is a cock-up to be honest.

People pay their tax - usually sqwark about it, then ignore it for the next month. They dont usually sit down and ponder just what the breakdown is.

Same as council tax, there is a breakdown of how it is spent, then I suspect most people ignore it.

Obviously the shitty minded bigots will be chanting the figures like a mantra, but that is the target group, and they will be getting what they want - soundbites.

But most people are relatively sane, and will understand that millionsof people are unemployed through no fault of their own, ditto disabled people, ditto pensioners, ditto people on low wages.

But its glourious for the bigots.

KizzyKazaer

  • Global Moderator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7921
Re: A new area of propaganda from this government
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2012, 02:19:10 PM »
the Chancellor intends to give income taxpayers a breakdown of their tax bill, where the money raised is spent

Dear oh dearie me, haven't they got enough other ways to waste our money?

And will the welfare spend take into account the 50 million a year we now know is spent on the appeals system because correct benefit decisions can't be made in the first bloody place, thanks to the ATOS 'find-em-fit-for-work-at-all-costs' practices...