Author Topic: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled  (Read 2517 times)

Rosie

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2017, 10:38:26 AM »
I dont know this but was assuming Gus is a local. It might be hard to quote a source if the info is from Facebook or similar.

I do not "do" Facebook or any such thing, but I do read the BBC online and whatever else UK online news reports I can get.

Nowhere have I read that "a" Syrian refugee family are being "thinking of being given that house".  All reports are that they ARE being given that house.

Just like the "refugee" family from Somalia who were given a two million pound house in London.

Hey people - I am a British citizen and I want to return to the UK.  [I do not but that is immaterial at the moment].

I was born in the UK - my parents were born in the UK.  I am disabled.  The UK gonna give me a place to live in if I wanted to return, because I live in a war zone?

Like heck they would.

British born of British born parents can, according to the British parliament and whatever, can go sleep on the streets because the poor refugees come first.

I am just grateful that I will NEVER have to go back to the UK.  I would rather die than have to live where so-called refugees take all the housing and get paid for doing absolutely nothing.


Save the world - it's the only planet with chocolate

Fiz

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3369
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2017, 03:01:57 PM »
I am just so grateful that I haven't had my town obliterated and had to run literally for my life with only what I can carry leaving everything else behind. I am so grateful that I haven't had to witness people I know and love be tortured and killed. I am so grateful that as a female it is not assumed by many men that they came rape me and no one can do anything about that. I am very grateful that on my journey of hundreds of miles from my home town and all I know and love I see dead bodies along the roadside and in towns that have been pillaged or attacked. I am so grateful that my country is not so dangerous to enter that aid workers are risking their very lives to enter and try to help people, many international aid agencies have decided the risk of death is too high and will no longer enter Syria.

I am just so very grateful that I have not been through all that and very much hope that somehow I can help some of these people, hopefully temporarily until Syria is once again safe, but if not, for longer. I have been through trauma through my life but absolutely nothing like these people have. I am very grateful and hope we can help them.

Rosie

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2017, 04:14:00 PM »
Fiz - do you know where Syria is?

Do you know where I live?

Do you know that Syria is full of Hezbullah  who are intent on destroying where I live?

Are you gonna give me a home when mine is blown up?

No, I did not think so.

As for going past dead bodies - the number 5 Dan bus was blown up outside my office window and I was covered with glass, blood and body parts.

So do not tell me about the poor Syrians. 

Are you going to give up your place in a hospital queue for them?  Or pay their money out of your allowance?

Fiz  - you can have your poor Syrians.  But I can guarantee you would not lift a finger to help a British born citizen from British born parents, whose father, uncles and grandfathers fought in the British Army during both World Wars.  And who lost most of her family in the Holocaust.

You want to help these people?  What help did you give MY people during WWII.
Save the world - it's the only planet with chocolate

KizzyKazaer

  • Global Moderator and Welfare Rights
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7824
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2017, 05:32:46 PM »
Quote
You want to help these people?  What help did you give MY people during WWII.

There was the Kindertransport, which helped some 10,000 Jewish children: (unfortunately the link I was using was playing up, so I've removed it from this post- but if anyone needs confirmation of my statement, Google has plenty of other links)

Back on topic, please?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 05:37:04 PM by KizzyKazaer »

Monic1511

  • Moderator Welfare Rights
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1944
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2017, 07:10:18 PM »
Rosie
I am sorry but I find your tone offensive, you seem to be implying that no one should help another human being if they come from a nation that does not support or agree with Israel.

There is evil all over the world and it has been perpetrated on people of all faiths and none.  the original topic was about giving a house to refugees in a county in England, I believe you have mentioned before that you live in a settlement in Israel.  There are many wrongs on both sides in the Israel situation but since you live there you will know them from your perspective, people in the UK see news about a war in Syria and our government has decided to take in refugees.  Yes that creates problems here as there have been fights about housing in the uk since WW2. 

Like Fiz I live in the UK and am grateful I don't live in a war zone,  if I am well enough I would give up my place to a person who's need was higher than mine, that's just the way the NHS works,  I was told you'll get your surgery as long as there is no emergency.

There are many persecuted people and when you say what help did you give my people - which ones do you mean, I believe you were alluding to the holocaust by the national socialist regime in Germany,  well they started with the disabled adults and children of Germany, moved onto the mentally ill, the communists, the homosexuals, the Roma, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Negro and people of other ethnic minorities and also the Jews.  Since you have mentioned your health issues in the past I think you also mean the culling of the disabled but no one's that bothered about them,  they get a small mention in holocaust memorial day but not much.

When we start giving aid based on a person's background rather than their needs I think we have lost and are just practising prejudice.  It must be horrible to live in a way that makes you look at a person in need and not think how can I help that person but think  they are not the type of person I want to help so I wont because they are one of the horrible people.

I hope you have a peaceful weekend
Monic

Sunny Clouds

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3812
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 12:35:52 AM »
I agree with Monic.

Further (and not I think at odds with what she said), consider this.  Monic alludes to the range of people the Nazis murdered and victimised, but unless I've misread, she didn't mention that to begin with, the ones they murdered were Germans, ethnically or by citizenship, living in Germany.  That includes not only the disabled, trades unionists etc., but the German Zigeuner and the German Jews.

By your reasoning, Rosie, we should be hostile to all those whose families are of German ethnicity and/or citizenship because the Nazis were German.

I suggest you read up on what is happening in Syria.  There are many countries and political groupings involved in a complex pattern of alliances, many of which make little sense, and on the ground ordinary people are being killed in vast numbers and fleeing for their lives, not all the same ethnic origin, not all the same religion, not all the same political views. 

So by your reasoning, the correct response to a fleeing WW2 refugee German Jew would be to give them safe haven, recognising that whilst they were Germans, they were also victims, but the correct response to a fleeing Syrian war refugee would be to refuse them safe haven because even though they are victims, they are Syrian.

As for where you live, yes, we do know.  You live in a country carved out of another people's country, a country that exercises what a UN committee has just described as apartheid, a country that denies access by humanitarian agencies to people being pushed further and further to the edge of their country.

You know my views.  Personally, my only reason for welcoming you back into this country would that it would be one person less to add to the ever-growing immigrant population of Israel that's pushing the indiginous Palestinians further and further back across their land, whilst they fight desperately to keep their water supplies.

You doubtless won't like my characterisation of you that way, but when you are judgemental of whether people in war zones should be given safe haven, consider how others may see your position and consider that there are many, myself included, that would give priority for safe haven to those caught up in a war where they happen to have been  born than those caught up in war in a country they knew was already taking another country's land.  You chose to live where you do, those Syrian families were born in Syria.  They didn't deserve to be doubly victimised, firstly by being caught in the middle of a ghastly multi-way proxy war, and secondly by being made unwelcome by people living in the countries around the world whose governments have provoked and are fighting this horrible war.

You may not like my political views at all but at least appreciate that to some people like me, what you are saying is that it's one rule for you and those like you, and another rule for others when it comes to fleeing war and persecution.

 

gus

  • Diamond member
  • ****
  • Posts: 236
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2017, 07:46:25 AM »
I dont know this but was assuming Gus is a local. It might be hard to quote a source if the info is from Facebook or similar.

I went on a hunt and yes I know this is a Daily Mail link but there is some information worth knowing on it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4309048/Syrian-refugees-500-000-six-bedroom-home.html

It mentions the house has a wheelchair ramp but needs some modernisation and updating, so I am wondering if the disabled people who applied were told that the housing did not meet there needs. For example the was a housing documentary on tv a while ago and a disabled person concerned a house the bid for to be suitable but there was a small step and so the powers that be sad no.

Also the government has said the UK is going to accept 20.000 refugees direct from refugee camps in the middle east so the family that is getting the house could be coming as part of that scheme and not people who have crossed borders into other safe countries already.

The article has a quote of someone saying that the refugees are not coming her for ever and many will return home once it is safe so it could be that the council let them have the house because it is suitable for that family, them living there will mean rent gets paid and then later on there might be money to modernise the house and give it to a family who has a disabled person it it.

Gus,

Thank you for posrtin this story it is important we discuss this sort of stuff  >thumbsup<

Yes I am local.
Whilst I have every sympathy with the Syrians plight and if Britain can help house families that's great I do however think our village is not suitable. It is isolated with one grocery shop that is very expensive virtual no public transport and unless you like pubs nothing to do.There are no people of similar culture no access to a suitable school the local schools are very underfunded and struggling to cope as it is.Pictures of the house have now been shown in the press which makes me think is the property now safe from possible unsavory people?

The family need to be in a town with all the amenities a town brings everything would close by.People in the village have offered to help with lifts and so forth but maybe the family will want to be left alone? Maybe they will have had enough of people interfering.

Personally I think some people are putting their egos first so they can feel they are doing their bit but are not thinking of what the family need or want.The council and HA have closed ranks and are being a bit cagey over this matter.The question remains why were people allowed to bid if they were not suitable? and why all the secrecy?

SunshineMeadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7144
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2017, 08:14:59 AM »
Gus,

Thank you.

To me it sounds like you are right about egos and the local powers that be have jumped at the chance to look good or worse still someone in a position of influence wanted there to be a backlash so they can make excuse for future decisions eg say local people are objecting making it difficult to find housing for refugees.It is so difficult to get into social housing these days that anyone who has been on the list for years is bound to be upset at having to wait longer. Years ago some social housing was built  in my home town and there was a lot of 'talk' when out of towners were allocated some of the houses. The housing association had schemes across the North East and so were working on that scale whereas local people saw local housing going to 'others'. It is a market town with a mindset  based on how country people think about things. That said I am reminded of how during the war my grandmother took in evacuees as many other country people did.

I agree with what you said about location while at the same time think it is something the Syrian family should be able to decide for themselves.It depends on their personal situation eg keeping the large family together.

Do you know is the family is being housed as part of the Government promise to take in 20 000 refugess if so it is worth me posting this link

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/472020/Syrian_Resettlement_Fact_Sheet_gov_uk.pdf

Quote
How do you choose who comes to the UK?
 The people coming to the UK under the Syrian VPR scheme are in desperate need of
assistance and many have significant needs. It prioritises those who cannot be supported
effectively in their region of origin: women and children at risk, people in severe need of
medical care and survivors of torture and violence amongst others.
 We work closely with the UNHCR to identify cases that they deem in need of resettlement
and we will continue this work to ensure we deliver our commitment to provided refuge to
20,000 Syrians over the course of this Parliament.

I hope this post makes sense I am up far too early  >zzz<

SunshineMeadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7144
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2017, 08:23:41 AM »
Monic.
It is times like this that I wish we had a like button for posts  >thumbsup< >star<

Sunny,
Well thought out and interesting reading, I had not thought of it as being Germans killing Germans before (as well as other nationalities)

Rosie,

I know you are living in very difficult circumstances and I also know how meds can affect what I post so I can understand the rant you posted. However it would be great if you could come back and re read your post when you are feeling less fraught because at the least you owe Fiz and apology. Not saying you have to apologise but it would be nice if you could.


Sunny Clouds

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3812
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2017, 05:11:26 PM »
Let me throw out a challenge as food for thought:-

If the urban areas are to be expected to take refugees that villagers don't want, can we pick some of our other residents that we don't want and send them to you instead?  We could do a nice swap.  Would you like our thugs or our robbers?  Round here, we'd be very happy to have more refugees instead.

The only issue we have with incomers is that actually they don't want to be all clustered together because it makes it far harder for them to integrate than if they were spread out more. 

Unfortunately, since urban areas aren't so quiet, it's harder for people from war zones to overcome their PTSD and other after-effects of being shelled, shot at, attacked with missiles etc.  But tell you what, if you don't want refugees to share your tranquillity, we could send you lots of others that could also do with it.  How's about people terrorised during the Troubles, on the mainland and across the water?

You see, whilst you're entitled to feel the way you do, I'm struggling to see why most of the arguments you put forward are actually sound arguments for the place being unsuitable for refugees, the sole exception being that you really don't want them, and the last thing they need after what they've been through is to be on the receiving end of hostility.

SunshineMeadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7144
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2017, 06:44:15 PM »
It is  not a binary choice of either or and it has much more to do with how is something done rather than what is done.

Had the locals been told the house needed a lot of money to be spent on it to make it suitable eg modernisation for permanent living they could have a better understanding of why the house is being let to a Syrian family.

Maybe the family want a tranquil place to be and it would work well. I dont know enough about the dormitory towns down south but it seems to me having to travel to services would need to be addressed. Back when I was a child the local vicar would have organised a warm welcome to the newcomers. Life is no longer like that and it was good that we moved on to things like the NHS and welfare benefits but it has meant people power has ofteen been diminished.

I wonder what the refugees think of the realities of UK living and how disconnected a lot of people are. How along with out successful industry we have lost ordinary things like the sound of song birds sorry going off topic now.

Monic1511

  • Moderator Welfare Rights
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1944
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2017, 08:54:59 PM »
Hi Gus

thank you for your comments,  You know your location and the demographic of your area,  I live in a large town and we have several refugee families who have all been put into a block of flats in the centre of the town, I'm aware that some of them are wheelchair users only because I pass the flats often and see wheelchairs in the close.  not sure how they get the person in as there are stairs in the flats and to access flats.   I may be wrong and have been before but if 2 or 3 families were moved into a smaller town they would have support of each other and with a willing community they would be encouraged to integrate.   If I had to move to England from Scotland I would be scared and that's just within the UK, I'm not sure how people cope when they move from one culture to another culture.  Yes I would want to escape a war zone, it was hellish when my dad was in a war zone and I had to wait at home for him to return.

I think we agree the UK has many problems but I think we have to care for our fellow humans no matter who they are, I don't particularly like the sex offenders, alcoholics and some drug addicts I have to work for but behind the crime there is often a scared mentally ill or addicted person who will trust me when I start to treat them as a person.   It can be hard but I rarely meet people who I cannot work with, the ones who make my hackles rise and leave me scared.   

I have to start with this is a person with a need, I get exasperated with them and will get into trouble for being crabbit with them but sending someone out the door telling them they need to sleep on the street is hellish, its normally a person from the EU who no longer has any recourse to public funds or outside the EU who will never get access to public funds.  the other scenario is people who return to the uk after an absence who have to be in the uk for 3 months before they get access to funds.
The refugees have no access to public funds either and their funding for housing benefit, living costs etc comes from a central government budget and its their social worker who has to access it.

This is getting way off topic and I agree with Gus that it appears to be a vanity project by the local councillors although how they think this will get them more votes I am not sure.   

I wonder if the property is empty because the transport links are not there.  I thinsk you mentioned that as well, anyway I feel as if I'm rambling now - need to stop before I get completely lost

Monic

Fiz

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3369
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2017, 07:46:18 AM »
My daughter is nursing Syrian children that have been brought over as part of our deal to help a set number of Syrians camped outside their borders. The children are being treated due to being starved for over two years. They are having blood transfusions but their prognosis is extremely poor and it's felt they are unlikely to survive. She's so upset, she says it's heartbreaking seeing such small but disfigured children.

bulekingfisher

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2686
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2017, 04:53:26 PM »
Hello Ouchers

What happened to first come first served I thought that was the first rule of Democracy + charity starts at home. So I ask why is the population of this country letting this old fashioned (conservative) Govt lead us arse first into a twisted mess

Monic1511

  • Moderator Welfare Rights
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1944
Re: Syrian refugees to move into home adapted for disabled
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2017, 08:30:12 PM »
Ok I'll bite, first come first serve also translates as survival of the fittest. So that means all the old vulnerable disabled people are discarded. I thought that we measured societies on how the treat the weak poor disadvantaged but if that's not what you want so be it.