Author Topic: Conditionality for support group ESA  (Read 713 times)

Sunny Clouds

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Conditionality for support group ESA
« on: April 05, 2017, 01:32:23 PM »
I've lost the link now (accidentally closed the tab) but I've just been reading that the government says it's going to go ahead with introducing some sort of equivalent of work-related activity for people in the support group, with sanctions if you don't comply, unless you're considered to be vulnerable.

After a moment of anger, fear, and resignation, I moved on to my usual way of dealing with things, which is to consider absurdities.

Here's how I envisage it.

Mr Bloggs, I've asked you in here today to discuss what moves you can make towards going back to work.
Back to work?  But my dad said I'll have to do National Service first.
National Service?  Oh, you mean work experience placements.  That  might be a sensible way forward, but first we need to consider what sort of work you could do.
Well I can ride a bike better than my brother.
We need to look at what skills you might have that an employer would want.
I'm good at football.  Is it time for tea yet?  I'm fed up with this, I want my tea!
If you don't finish this interview and sign the agreed plan, your benefits will be sanctioned and you don't want that, do you?
Mum! This lady's being nasty to me!
That's not your mother, that's the security guard.  If you don't stop shouting, I'll have to ask that you be removed.   Now are you prepared to discuss what sort of work you might be able to do when you recover from your early-onset dementia, or aren't you?  I haven't got time to mess around here because I've got another client arriving in five minutes to discuss what sort of employment would be suitable for her with her quadriplegia, mutism, severe visual impairment and projectile vomiting.  I've only been able to fit you in at short notice because Miss Jones jumped out of the window yesterday when I asked her why she hadn't managed to kill herself yet and when she expected to recover from her schizoaffective disorder and the severe brain damage incurred during one of her fifty previous suicide attempts.

Rosie

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 04:08:13 PM »
Sunny - I have some work-related activity for you - please come and clean my monitor only I spluttered coffee all over it when reading your post!  >snork<

Incidentally, what browser are you using because you should be able to re-open recently closed tabs.
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SteveX

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 08:13:13 PM »
oh dear god.. what now :'(

They won't be happy until we're all working 40++ hours a week or dead.      meanwhile MP's and government lackeys get more perks like £300 a DAY for turning up for 4 mins.   Despicable government want to drag us back to the Victoria era and sadly too many tory voters are too inbred and thick to see it coming.   What next, work houses or gas chambers?
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Monic1511

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 08:21:23 PM »
Sunny
Stop giving them Ideas Please.

hopefully there will be no universal credit in your area any time soon.   Its only in universal credit full service areas that there is conditionality for people who have "limited capability for work related activity" 
Sorry that's a nightmare for another day, I really cant face it just now


was this what you were looking at
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-if-you-have-a-disability-or-health-condition-quick-guide/universal-credit-if-you-have-a-disability-or-health-condition
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KizzyKazaer

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 09:20:08 PM »
Quote
...I've just been reading that the government says it's going to go ahead with introducing some sort of equivalent of work-related activity for people in the support group, with sanctions if you don't comply, unless you're considered to be vulnerable.

Errr... what's the point of having an ESA 'support group' in the first place, then?   >doh< >doh<  Unless this poxy government are planning to introduce some sort of 'sub-support' category, or something, while perhaps moving everyone in the ESA WRAG to JSA  >angry<

Some people cannot work, end of.  Why is this basic fact so hard for ministers to understand?

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 09:30:09 PM »
I've just taken a look on DNS, which I hadn't looked at before and is generally reliable.  It turns out that the green paper relates to people on ESA before the 13 week point.  So that's ok, then.  So long as they haven't actually put you in the support group yet, it's fine to treat you as if you're just a bit under the weather.   >steam<

Rosie - I use Firefox and usually I'm fine about re-opening tabs.  My problem at the moment is that I'm overwhelmed with stuff (i.e. not internet stuff) but I'm also using the internet to find info and keep sites with contact details to hand, which means that I've got (quick count) just under 50 tabs open.  If I think 'oops, I moved onto a new topic and forgot I wanted to be able to link to what I was looking at before' I can find I've got tab after tab and not the faintest which to go back a few pages on.  Yes, it's that bad at the moment.

But it's ok, they probably won't go ahead with these proposals.  They'll just do something else equally horrid instead.

The thing is that personally, I probably wouldn't object in principle to looking at how to get back into the workplace, if I thought that whoever was advising actually knew what they were on about, rather than simply having been re-deployed from a different department where they did actually know what they were on about, and if I didn't think I'd end up having to sign up to do something pointless or impossible or both, and get sanctioned on some tenuous excuse for not doing something decidedly unhelpful.

Rosie

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 09:59:48 PM »

Rosie - I use Firefox and usually I'm fine about re-opening tabs.  My problem at the moment is that I'm overwhelmed with stuff (i.e. not internet stuff) but I'm also using the internet to find info and keep sites with contact details to hand, which means that I've got (quick count) just under 50 tabs open.  If I think 'oops, I moved onto a new topic and forgot I wanted to be able to link to what I was looking at before' I can find I've got tab after tab and not the faintest which to go back a few pages on.  Yes, it's that bad at the moment.

50 tabs is nothing, says she who dare not count how many windows/browsers/tabs she has.  I have four Firefox windows, each with ahem number of tabs - pinned so I can get them all in.  Two Microsoft windows each with ahem number of pinned tabs, and I think I have two Chrome windows and tabs. 

What with those, plus ahem number of email addresses, each with ahem number of files - emails I archive, stuff from browsers are bookmarked - and I do not know why I keep so much stuff.  I do weed everything regularly but I am about three years out of date of deleting stuff.

But I read all the posts here and just thank crunchie that I do not and will not have to go through any of those hoops again.

Swings and roundabouts though.  My disability pension and allowances are permanent - until I am 120 years old !!! - paid into my bank on the 28th of each month - but on the other hand I get no rent allowance and have to pay for whatever things I need in my home to enable me to do anything. 

I just know that I could not fill in all the forms and stuff you have to - I think I would just unplug all telephones, ignore any knocks on the door, stay in bed, and pull the duvet over my head.

 



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SteveX

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2017, 03:03:15 AM »
I've been so so worried since I read this earlier, 3am now, I've not had a wink of sleep from worry.
Just logged on now and I read the latest posts..  *small sigh of relief*
 
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Sunny Clouds

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2017, 11:49:29 AM »
Here's DNS' version (front page news), better explained than the confuddled version I read elsewhere and what I put in the OP.  You'll see how I'm getting different things mixed up.  Nevertheless, it seems that they're planning to introduce various sorts of meetings with JC+ people that you can be sanctioned for not attending, over and above the existing ones for people allocated to the WRAG, some for people pre-WCA, some for people in support group, with some exemptions that will be decided upon by staff with no relevant knowledge, just a one-day training course.

[I tried to work out the quote box thingy but got in a pickle - all of what follows is quoted from the DNS front-page article.  The italics are mine.]

The slides show DWP has already begun introducing a compulsory, face-to-face “health and work conversation” (HWC) with a jobcentre work coach that will apply to nearly all new claimants of ESA, weeks or even months before they go through the WCA process to decide whether they are not fit for work and eligible for the benefit.

The presentation says that “vulnerable” claimants will not have to take part in the face-to-face HWC.

A DWP spokesman has told Disability News Service (DNS) that work coaches will be “issued clear guidance on who will be exempted from the HWC” and “will also be able to defer the HWC if the claimant cannot attend due to temporary circumstances”.

But disabled activists have warned that these decisions will be taken by non-medically trained civil servants.

It added: “A sanction will be applied for failure to attend or participate in the HWC without good cause. This means a claimant’s ESA payment will be reduced.”

It also appeared to suggest that jobcentre work coaches would only receive one day of face-to-face training – as well as online training – before they begin delivering the HWCs.


But he stressed that the HWC was separate to a proposed post-WCA “keep-in-touch discussion” for those in the support group that is part of the green paper consultation and is “currently under consideration”, and according to the green paper could be a mandatory requirement.

SteveX

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Re: Conditionality for support group ESA
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2017, 08:13:42 PM »
"But he stressed that the HWC was separate to a proposed post-WCA “keep-in-touch discussion” for those in the support group that is part of the green paper consultation and is “currently under consideration”, and according to the green paper could be a mandatory requirement."

oh joy..  *sigh*
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