Author Topic: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition  (Read 261 times)

KizzyKazaer

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Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« on: February 05, 2018, 09:32:14 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42946540

If these alleged cyber crimes are proven, they would be serious indeed - and it was US computer systems that were apparently targeted.  In the event of Mr Love being found guilty, my thoughts would run along the lines of 'if you can't do the time, don't do the crime - anywhere in the world'. 

(At this stage, Mr Love has yet to undergo a trial so is not technically a criminal at this point in time, just for any lawyers who may be reading - hence my use of the word 'alleged')

For me this raises wider issues of - how much leniency should be allowed because a suspect has Aspergers' syndrome or indeed any other condition affecting brain functioning?  I would be interested in what thoughts others may have ...

Monic1511

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 06:19:41 AM »
Hi Kizzy
Some of these people irritate me because they seem to think they can break into private places and because they have health challenges they can do what the want with no repercussions. Just look at the effect on the family and he seems to be smirking 😏.
Yes my interpretation may be wrong but that’s several of these alleged hackers all using their Asperger as a excuse.

Will I duck for cover now?

JLR2

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 07:22:19 AM »
My concerns, in an outlandish way one would be if someone suffering this syndrome committed an act that resulted in someone's death, would they face a trial for manslaughter?  More realistically if someone suffering Asperger's syndrome can break into some of the world's most secure systems how secure can the DWP's systems be?  The amount of personal information held on millions of people using the DWP would provide rich pickings for fraudsters around the world.

For years BT customers suffered from their details being sold by BT customer service folk working in their foreign call centres as calls came into our homes claiming to be customer services looking to help speed up folks internet connections. These callers would then try to gain remote access to private computers and the personal information held on them.

With the government so determined to move all DWP claims on-line any hacker hacking the DWP's system could, if only for mischievous or malevolent purposes, cause the system to crash. Just how would a DWP struggling as it is to sort out one part of its system, UC, cope with the whole system being brought down?  How would a government react to millions of people, both those on out of work and in work benefits, deal with such an event?

Fiz

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 09:53:35 PM »
Monic, for the most part I totally agree with you. I think the highly intelligent end of the Aspergers spectrum are intelligent enough to know they are breaking the law even if they're naively unaware of what the consequences may be.

My ex had an Uncle who had Aspergers and he groped a woman indecently and the police offered him a plea bargain that if he admitted to a number of similar crimes that he would be fined and wouldn't get a jail time. My ex's family were furious with the police when they found out because for most of the crimes he'd been encouraged to admit to, he'd been with them and couldn't have committed the crimes. But for the police they took advantage of a person with Aspergers to get good crimes solved figures. So there are people with Aspergers knowing they've broken the law and seemingly receiving no consequences and there are people with Aspergers who the police exploit to their own gain. My ex's family felt their relative didn't know what he had done was inappropriate or illegal, in many ways he was like a child..

JLR2

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2018, 09:59:47 AM »
Just a thought, we hear every now and then of someone suffering Asperger's syndrome hacking into what are supposedly highly secure systems and I find myself wondering if those we have heard about are all living on their own?  Or do they live with family?  If it is the latter where is parental control?  Would a parent of a Asperger's syndrome be content knowing their son (there's another question now)  was interested in hacking into a porn website's data base be content to let him carry on as they, the parent, watch the telly?

That other question, is it my imagination or are all those Asperger syndrome suffering hackers we have heard about in the news 'all' male?  Don't women suffer from Asperger's syndrome?  Certainly if they do they don't appear so concerned with hacking into websites or security systems.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:22:31 AM by JLR2 »

lankou

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2018, 10:18:11 AM »
Just a thought, we hear every now and then of someone suffering Asperger's syndrome hacking into what are supposedly highly secure systems and I find myself wondering if those we have heard about are all living on their own?  Or do they live with family?  If it is the latter where is parental control?  Would a parent of a Asperger's syndrome be content knowing their son (there's another question now)  was interested in hacking into a porn website's data base?

That other question, is it my imagination or are all those Asperger syndrome suffering hackers we have heard about in the news 'all' male?  Don't women suffer from Asperger's syndrome?  Certainly if they do they don't appear so concerned with hacking into websites or security systems.

Women do suffer from Asperger's but the percentage is less than men:-

http://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/gender.aspx

Statistics show that more men and boys than women and girls have a diagnosis of autism. Various studies, together with anecdotal evidence have come up with men/women ratios ranging from 2:1 to 16:1.
•Brugha's 2009 survey of adults living in households throughout England found that 1.8% of men and boys surveyed had a diagnosis of autism, compared to 0.2% of women and girls.
•Hans Asperger thought no women or girls were affected by the syndrome he described in Autistic psychopathy in childhood (1944), although clinical evidence later caused him to revise this thinking.
•In Leo Kanner's 1943 study of a small group of children with autism there were four times as many boys as girls.
•In their much larger 1993 study of Asperger syndrome in mainstream schools in Sweden, Ehlers and Gillberg found the same boy to girl ratio of 4:1. 
•In 2015, the ratio of men to women who use NAS adult services was approximately 3:1, and in those that use NAS schools it is approximately 5:1.
•Lorna Wing found in her paper on sex ratios in early childhood autism that among people with 'high-functioning autism' or Asperger syndrome there were as many as 15 times as many men and boys as women and girls, while in people with learning difficulties as well as autism the ratio of men and boys to women and girls was closer to 2:1.

 This could suggest that, while women and girls are less likely to develop autism, when they do they are more severely impaired. Alternatively, it could suggest 'high-functioning' women and girls with autism have been underdiagnosed, compared to men and boys.



JLR2

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 10:29:40 AM »
Seems to me the security services of many of the world's larger countries, (CIA, GCHQ, Mossad, KGB) could actually be minded to recruit Asperger syndrome sufferers into their intelligence agency/spying networks with the purpose of using their hacking skills to augment the work of their regular intelligence/security departments.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2018, 01:20:20 PM »
I've read more than one article about Silicon valley employers specifically recruiting people with Asperger's, but whether this is actually several companies or just one, and whether it's an ongoing thing or something they tried in the past, I don't know.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

oldtone27

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 02:31:59 PM »
I seem to recall a few years ago reading that the Dutch police were recruiting people with high functioning autism especially to do detailed examination of crime reports and evidence as they are particularly suited to this task.

Dark_Divinity

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2018, 12:22:33 AM »

That other question, is it my imagination or are all those Asperger syndrome suffering hackers we have heard about in the news 'all' male?  Don't women suffer from Asperger's syndrome?  Certainly if they do they don't appear so concerned with hacking into websites or security systems.

Could it be that women and girls with Aspergers/Autistic Spectrum Condition are trying their best to understand the ever-shifting social landscape of what social expects a female to be like?

The social penalties and levels of rejection differ between the genders and age range.

July 2017- Autism Spectrum Condition.

June 2012 -Hypothyroidism.

JLR2

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 10:25:20 PM »
Just noticed on the BBC text info pages that some hackers have tried to hack government computers apparently they were said to be trying to, ''mine cryptocurrency''  the story's heading reads, ''Digital cash hack hits government websites''. Between that and the story regarding energy companies being given details about welfare benefit claimants hackers are going to have a field day.

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 11:41:15 AM »
The DWP computers being compromised doesn't bear thinking about..

Liking the idea of high-functioning Aspie hackers being employed to use their skills to the good - this already happens, doesn't it, with some other former offenders who used particularly intelligent methods to carry out their crimes?

Monic and Fiz, I have the same sentiments about anyone trying to avoid culpability for wrong-doing on the back of having 'a condition' - it smacks of 'trying to have your cake and eat it', ie wanting freedom without responsibility.  Life doesn't work like that!

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 12:18:22 PM »
Just for something lighthearted...

Just as people with aspergers and/or people caught hacking being actively recruited by parts of the computer industry, particularly those involved in developing products to combat hacking, and by parts of the intelligence services, consider how they originally recruited people for Bletchley Park (to crack German/Nazi codes).  The first effort to recruit suitable people was via people good at crosswords, later formalised into contacting a lot of people who'd entered a Daily Telegraph crossword competition.  They also then moved on to recruiting mathematicians etc.

Having said that, I want to now get serious and go off on one about the issue of when an impairment becomes an aptitude.

When I was young, it was seen as normal to try and find aptitudes in impairments, but now it's not.  Our society doesn't want to do things that way, it wants us to fit in neat little boxes.  So what then happens to people with impairments?  Some get by, some find other strengths, some get bored, some get depressed, some go off the rails etc. 

We saw it all with Remploy.  A company that made products people wanted and bought.  Nah, rubbish, all those 'thickos' just standing around doing nothing (except waiting to m eet the visiting bigwig).  Privatise it, turn it into a recruitment/placement agency.  Erm, place in what jobs?  But those ex-Remploy employees are so much more useful to society signing on, aren't they?  People really want to buy their queueing and signing on skills.  Not like the products they used to make.  Nobody would want those.  Oh, they did?  People bought them because they actually wanted them, not simply because they felt sorry for the 'thickos'?  Gosh!

I personally have an obsessive compulsive personality disorder and also a desperate need to explain.  As far as I'm concerned, they both come from having a father for whom nothing was ever good enough, so I felt I had to justify myself all the time.  If only someone had told me what I read only a few months ago in relation to that sort of person "Never explain!"  I.e. just agree with them, even if actually you don't.  How different my life might have been.

But I've done jobs where I've explained and been good at it.   A couple of days ago, I looked again at something I'd forgotten - a testimonial from an old job.  People valued my ability to explain. The lawyers and judges who consulted me valued it.  Yet recently, someone said to me "You think too much!"  and I went into near meltdown.  I don't mean I shouted at them, I was polite to them, I mean afterwards, in private and then on a messageboard (which was ok because the person who said it doesn't use a computer and I didn't name them anyway).

It's like being well some of the time and not well some of the time used to be a plus, forming a pool of useful temps, but now that's been made into almost a crime by a benifits system that punishes it.  Having regard to all the hassle I've had in the past over starting and stopping work, both paid and voluntary, I'm just sitting back and marking time.  I never thought I'd do that. 

So what I'm working my way back round to is that I bet fewer people with Aspergers would go off the rails if our society had more employers, community groups etc. that went "Oh wow! Asperger's!  What a fantastic resource for us!"
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Dark_Divinity

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 06:37:47 PM »
   

So what I'm working my way back round to is that I bet fewer people with Aspergers would go off the rails if our society had more employers, community groups etc. that went "Oh wow! Asperger's!  What a fantastic resource for us!"

In an ideal world where we all live in an ideal “society” where people are truly accepting of people who are different there would be the motivation to find a place for someone based on their interests, weaknesses and strengths.

I guess it’s too much boring hard work to do that and instead they continue to hammer the square peg in the deluded, ignorant belief that it will become a round peg who is just like all the other pegs.

People being pressurized into being something they are not (happy, smiley corporate customer service robots) then bullied and blamed when they explode out sheer frustration as they feel they have no place in the system. Stack shelves and beep beep beep 2.50 for 3.

I feel like this is what is happening to me and has been happening to me since I first opened my mouth and out fell something that was probably too insightful or intelligent for my age and gender for my parents (Father) and other adults to handle.

Covert bullying of people who have already gone through trauma to try and brainwash them into believing that they are evil and are deserving of how they get treated by the people around them. Maybe this is the only solution they those at the top (not people?) can come up with to deal with the difficult and unproductive pegs. Help the pegs to break themselves(mental breakdown) and put themselves in the bin (suicide).

After all they can go out and buy more pegs that are better than the previous ones. Wanna buy some pegs, Dave? No, George, we can get all the pegs we need from Iain Esther for free.

I don’t feel like people value me as I am not playing to their expectations of what I appear to be to them.  The expectations of people from what I understand (even in this day and age) still seem to fall into the traditional behavioral roles of gender and age.
Not all men are the problem. Some women seem to be part of this problem. Women policing the social behaviours of other women to “encourage” them to fit in better within the traditional gender roles. This encouragement can be quite covert and bitchy.
Insecure older women with husbands, families and good jobs who for some reason aren’t happy and seem to enjoy ripping into other behind their backs or other fun and games.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:51:37 PM by Dark_Divinity »
July 2017- Autism Spectrum Condition.

June 2012 -Hypothyroidism.

Dark_Divinity

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Re: Alleged hacker with Aspergers spared US extradition
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 06:52:02 PM »
I don’t feel like people value me as I am not playing to their expectations of what I appear to be to them.  The expectations of people from what I understand (even in this day and age) still seem to fall into the traditional behavioral roles of gender and age.

Not all men are the problem. Some women seem to be part of this problem. Women policing the social behaviours of other women to “encourage” them to fit in better within the traditional gender roles. This encouragement can be quite covert and bitchy.

Insecure older women with husbands, families and good jobs who for some reason aren’t happy and seem to enjoy ripping into other behind their backs or other fun and games.

To some extent some people seem to understand and project an understanding and acceptance.

Women should instinctively know the right thing to say in conversations (social pseudo-minding theory of mind) and avoid interrupting someone in a conversation (especially if dealing with an older man). Social equivalent of getting an elephant gun and blowing a massive hole in his ego. Under that her role is to agree and compliment him when he shows of his intelligence and problem-solving skills. If she were to “take over” and show off traits that are traditionally male then she would be over-stepping the line and take power away from the man. The unspoken message I think is that this is not socially acceptable. That equality is still the window dressing and not really part of how things.
 
Women should be happy creatures with a picnic basket full of smiles, eternal love and forgiveness for everyone around them. Apparently?

People made to feel lazy and stupid for not being good enough to be a part of a society which they feel rejected by and disconnected from. I guess that is why some people would rather help animal charities than people-orientated ones. Some people feel more connected to animals and communicate easier with them as there is little in the way of complicated social rituals and second-guessing mind games.

Pressurised into pretending to want to be a part of a system. The level of security, stability, understanding and compassion and respect you receive is based on the value of your Capitalist output and mindless Social Compliance.   

I don't "suffer" from ASD/Aspergers I suffer from the patronising garbage pumped out by a deluded "society" that doesn't really know what is wants and can't seem to make up it's collective mind all whilst slowly sleep-walking into oblivion.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:56:34 PM by Dark_Divinity »
July 2017- Autism Spectrum Condition.

June 2012 -Hypothyroidism.