Author Topic: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims  (Read 3946 times)

JLRRAC

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Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« on: March 31, 2013, 09:52:34 PM »
I can't help but feel within these figures are those who have ended their claims because they have ended their lives or died as result of their disabilities/illnesses. The DWP aren't saying much about that aspect of things are they?

Fizzbw

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 10:28:53 PM »
Or got better. Some will have made claims with temporary illness, but they are reported as scroungers! And yes, some die, some just can't cope with claiming and some change their circumstances and are no longer eligible.

But yes. Some will have died.

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Ricardomeister

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 11:16:53 PM »
From the DWP themselves in their quarterly ESA updates:

" Current data does not allow anything conclusive to be said about the destinations of closed and in progress cases, nor to infer what would have been or will be the outcome of assessment. However, the department has published research that investigated why some new ESA claims closed before assessment. It found that:

“An important reason why ESA claims in this sample were withdrawn or closed before they were fully assessed was because the person recovered and either returned to work, or claimed a benefit more appropriate to their situation.” "

This is even more the case because latest figures show that only 18% of assessments were completed within the 13 week period so people have even longer to recover.

Fizzbw

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 10:49:56 AM »
I'm just so gobsmacked that the government can release these figures and trumpet them around without the explanations in such a brazen fashion.

Fx

Monic1511

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 12:08:35 PM »
A lot of these claimants will be temp workers whose employers don't pay sick pay so they have no choice but to claim ESA.   Then after a few weeks they are fit again or if its a broken limb are able to return to work.  Their claim will be closed as soon as they go back to work.It all just spin doctoring by the government everyone knows politicians lie but some press ignore it cos it affects their agenda.

Monic

seegee

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 04:51:57 PM »
I know someone who persisted in a claim for a temporary illness; she said it was sheer bloody-mindedness as she had provided a sicknote (for a short period of sickness) then had to wait months & months for an assessment - which obviously came when she'd been fit & working for a few months, no longer even really needed the money. >doh< 
She refused to give it up because she knew that she was entitled to ESA for that couple of weeks; most people would have stopped as the system seems so stupid & pointless.  She got her money eventually >thumbsup<, though she had to go through the whole process first. 

Danslatete

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 11:57:54 AM »
What about people who finish the 365 day thing then have a partner that earns over the limit? Would they have dropped out?

Fizzbw

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 10:58:50 PM »
No, unless their assessment period lasted a year. It's just the people that apply for ESA, get the assessment rate and then fill in the ESA50 and have a WCA. So people stopping before the WCA basically.

Fx

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 10:28:37 AM »
Thank you for the information on this thread that clearly debunks the implications of that headline.

bulekingfisher

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2013, 02:24:20 PM »
Hello Fizzbow

Anything this alliance  says is to be taken with a pinch of salt because empty vessel's make the most noise + they are headline grabbing with propaganda they are masters of illousion

devine63

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2013, 02:47:33 PM »
Hi

have had a rep[ly from FullFact and they are very interested in this "error" about the 900,000 claims going from IB to ESA

I told them about Sky news and some of the other places but they are asking where else we saw this reported?
regards, Deb

Ricardomeister

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 03:46:27 PM »
Deb, the 2 main offenders, as usual, are the Mail and Telegraph:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2302122/Just-sickness-benefit-truly-ill-work-Almost-million-drop-benefits-claim-avoid-new-test.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9963012/900000-choose-to-come-off-sickness-benefit-ahead-of-tests.html

The first basic mistake (which is repeated by Grant Shapps) is that they are saying these people are choosing to come off "incapacity benefit". The figures relate to new ESA claims where people are on the assessment rate (which is the same amount as JSA so there is no financial incentive there) and are not receiving full ESA.

To say these people are choosing to come off "incapacity benefit" is a dangerous assertion as people on IB are on it for long term conditions, and the inference here is that large numbers have claimed over the long term when they know they are not genuine. New ESA claims will have some long term conditions, but obviously will have many short term conditions which people will recover from.

The actual IB figures show that 566,800 assessments had been completed and 27% had gone to the Support Group, 41% to the WRAG and 32% were "fit for work". A further 36,900 assessments had not been completed, of which 19,700 were closed before assessment:

http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/index.php?page=esa_ibr

The ESA figures show that 1,437,600 ESA assessments have been completed with 16% put into the Support group, 26% into the WRAG and 58% "fit for work".

The figures show that 99,500 assessments were still in progress and 878,300 claims were closed before assessment.

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/index.php?page=esa_wca

On page 2 of the pdf, the DWP acknowledge that:

" by excluding the effect of appeals this is likely to underestimate the proportion of claimants who will eventually be awarded the benefit. "

Re closed claims, on page 3 of the pdf, the DWP acknowledge that:

“An important reason why ESA claims in this sample were withdrawn or closed before they were fully assessed was because the person recovered and either returned to work, or claimed a benefit more appropriate to their situation.”

The source of this is this research:

http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2011-2012/rrep762.pdf

Tables on page 6 and 7 show what happened to people after closing their claim.

The other important thing that needs to be recognised is that the latest figures show that 82% of initial assessments are not being done within the 13 weeks, which means that people will have even longer to recover before being assessed, thus giving rise to more cases being withdrawn for that reason. Those figures were confirmed by Mark Hoban here:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm130304/text/130304w0004.htm#1303058000602
 

JLRRAC

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 06:24:00 PM »
In that case RM, the government should do as they are calling on the printed media to do and make an apology off the same strength of news coverage to the original story.

devine63

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2013, 07:57:02 PM »
thanks Ricardomeister, I have passed that on

regards, Deb

ATurtle

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Re: Re the 900 thousand dropping out of ESA claims
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 08:41:24 PM »
Can't we just insist that MPs take Scopolamine or similar before speakng in public!  That will make them tell the truth.
Tony.

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