Author Topic: If she felt bad beforehand, it was going to get a lot worse.  (Read 357 times)

ally

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If she felt bad beforehand, it was going to get a lot worse.
« on: February 06, 2018, 09:22:02 AM »
A 28-year-old woman has been fined and deported after attemping to commit suicide, it has been reported.

The Jordanian national, who suffers from anxiety and panic disorders was found in her flat by her cleaner.

The woman swallowed 50 Prazolam pills - which are used to treat panic and anxiety disorders, and was in a 40-day coma after.

Paramedics rushed to the house
And managed to bring her back to life.

The woman was connected to a ventilator.

When the woman was discharged from hospital, she tried to fly out of Dubai, but was unable to leave the country
The woman was directed to present at the police station, and was charged with possessing banned substances and attempted suicide.

She pled not guilty in court, showing medical reports that she had prescription medication. The woman also denied attempting to kill herself, rather stated she had taken her medication and slept.

She was fined AED5,000.

KizzyKazaer

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Re: If she felt bad beforehand, it was going to get a lot worse.
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 09:31:20 AM »
Good grief.  That poor woman.

First thought is how grateful I am to be living here in the UK. 

Sunny Clouds

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Re: If she felt bad beforehand, it was going to get a lot worse.
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2018, 11:32:33 AM »
I think that it's difficult, because as I understand it, suicide and attempted suicide are against the law there, being regarded as against the local interpretation of shariah law and thus incorporated into the criminal law, so whilst this is the maximum fine, it's actually considered a lenient sentence.  It's horrible, but actually more lenient than the punishments that used to be imposed on people who attempted suicide in the UK (except Scotland) before the law was changed, firstly in England & Wales, and then in NI.  Within my own lifetime, women in the UK have done time in prison for suicide attempts.

So whilst I'm not happy about what happened to this woman, I think she was shown leniency by local standards, and I'm hopeful that in due course those laws will, like ours,  become more lenient in this respect.  I note that in the UK, the Church of England was involved in the process of overturning the law criminalising suicide.

However, I wonder how far people realise that in the UK, people who attempt to kill themselves can end up in prison indirectly? 

E.g. the man who was incarcerated in a psychiatric ward and used an aerosol spray (some sort of toiletry) and a match/lighter to try to get through the door and was given an indeterminate sentence.  I think they did him for arson, which is the classic, but there were other things they might have charged him with, such as criminal damage or whatever.

E.g. someone I used to know who escaped from a psychiatric unit, went to a bridge over a road and said she was going to jump off.  I am not telling you any secrets when I tell you this (she told many others) - she was, in her way, a religious woman and believed that if she tried to kill herself and God sent someone to help, He wanted her to live and she would, but that if He didn't, He wanted her to die.  So in telling others, she wasn't, as they'd see it, being manipulative or whatever, she was asking God to help her, carrying out His will.

On this occasion, it took an hour to talk her down, during which time the traffic on the  motorway  below was stopped.  She was prosecuted for a public order offence and sentenced to 18 months.  This made no sense to her whatsoever, and frankly makes little sense to me, because if they wanted to deter her from doing this, I'd have thought support from a minister/church elder would have been more to the point.  (Sort of religious parole, if you'll excuse the mixed metaphors.)

Both these cases were in England.  Neither was from the last 3 or 4 years or so.  But if you were to look it up, you'd find other cases.  So we don't prosecute people who attempt suicide for attempting suicide, but we prosecute them for arson, criminal damage, breach of the peace, possession of an illegal substance etc.  I'm sure if you rummage around, you'll find other charges they come up with. 

So we haven't won the battle here, we just think we have.

And these things aren't easy to change in terms of law or culture.  Look at the ongoing battle over assisted suicide.  What I'm about to say isn't about converting you to my views, it's about drawing an analogy about how difficult these things are in terms of changing the law and also how it's applied. 

I know that those whose views are the opposite of mine feel as strongly as I do and that we all have a mixture of issues to do with things like autonomy, fear, humanity etc.    I believe that I should have the right to ask someone to help me die in the knowledge that provided there are proper witnesses, they won't be prosecuted.  Others believe that that shouldn't be lawful, whether because they feel it devalues life or whether they feel frightened it's the thin end of the wedge or whatever.  Let's call these pro-AS and anti-AS.  In some countries, pro-AS views would be seen as horrific; and in other countries, anti-AS views would be seen as horrific; and in many countries there would be divided opinions.

So whilst I feel for this woman in Dubai, I would re-assert that by local standards, a fine for this is lenient, and that it's something where in considering how people feel, it helps to see how divided we are in our own country over assisted suicide, and how recently suicide became lawful in the UK (except Scotland where it was never unlawful).

As to the actual fine,  I'd find it a bit interesting (but can't be bothered to look it up and am not asking anyone else to unless they particularly want to) to wonder where on a scale of fines relative to this woman's financial and social circumstances this fine is, e.g. how it would compare with fines for the sort of offences we think might cause distress or cost to others but not, shall we say, actually personally harm others.  Speeding?  Not paying a hotel bill?  Wasting police time? 

Meanwhile, I hope this woman's getting some serious help now, and preferably not just the sort that involves prescribing pills.

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: If she felt bad beforehand, it was going to get a lot worse.
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2018, 09:35:17 PM »
I agree Sunny. As a point of note knowing someone in the police heading up the mental health education and issues within the force, if someone was on a bridge and traffic was stopped and diverted causing severe disruption and the person was found to have a mental disorder (I hate the word disorder) if it was the first time they would not be charged or prosecuted. However they would be warned that if this was to be repeated then prosecution may happen. If they are prosecuted they do consider the 'best interests' of the person as to where they go and what treatment they are offered. I know the police feel really frustrated that people in crisis are either not taken seriously or there are no beds so they feel that mental health care currently is not sufficient. 

I'm very much pro AS too for terminally ill people.

ally

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Re: If she felt bad beforehand, it was going to get a lot worse.
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 05:14:42 AM »
I'm also very much for AS.  My mother was terminally ill.  She stopped eating and drinking in hospital  to help herself on her way.  I didn't intervene as I knew what she wanted.  However, the hospital didn't see it that way.  I was made to feel like a bad daughter.  I feel for anyone being  prosecuted for not wanting to be here.  They need help, not made to feel worse.  The law changed here in 1961 and as sunny said,  now, they don't prosecute for attempted suicide.  However, they could do for other reasons, as she's already explained. 

Fiz

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Re: If she felt bad beforehand, it was going to get a lot worse.
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 07:39:19 AM »
Thankfully although relatives have been taken to court and found guilty of assisting a suicide of their terminally ill relative in this country Afaik each Judge has felt compassion towards the "guilty" person and they've been given suspended sentences. But the poor people have had to endure the whole prosecution which must be extremely traumatised while they're still grieving the loss of their loved one. So I don't think anyone who has assisted a suicide has been jailed for it in the UK.