Author Topic: Who is supporting the media coverage against people like Corbyn and Salmond etc?  (Read 180 times)

Sunshine Meadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7655
JLR posted this on another thread and I realised it should have a thread of it's own

I added the warning triangle because sexual assault is mention in the post.

I will make my own comments in my reply - Sunshine


''The media are doing their best to destroy the labour party'' (Monic)

I have a feeling/thought running through my head and it is one that I hope to lessen the noise from by getting it off my chest so here goes :-)

I feel there is a lot going on as Monic has said and it is not just the attacks on Labour, particularly Corbyn. Folk may have heard the news about Alex Salmond's resignation from the S.N.P. following allegations of sexual misconduct whilst he was in office as the S.N.P.'s leader. Well I see similarities in the Carmicheal case, a case that saw a Scottish Libdem candidate and now MP proffering fake claims against Nicola Sturgeon with the intent to affect an election/vote.

From what I can understand of the Salmond case a civil servant (UK Government appointment, the government produced a short list of two candidates for the post from which the government in Scotland had to choose one))  has passed accusations of sexual misconduct to the Police in Scotland from 5 years ago and whilst claiming that her investigations were confidential she has refused to comment on the leakage of these claims to the Labour supporting Daily Record. My suspicion is that these two women are being used by the UK government, which fears the increasing likelihood of a second Independence referendum being called and being won by those wanting Scotland to regain its Independence. It is the hope of the UK government that through attacking Salmond the MSM can weaken support for both the S.N.P. and Scotland's Independence through providing the same MSM with ammunition to print and with which the likes of the BBC can run a constant barrage of negative stories relating, they hope to Alex Salmond and the S.N.P.

Rather odd is it not that neither of the two women whom have made their claims of sexual assault by Salmond thought it so serious that they said nothing for 'Five years'  I mean were a victim of rape to come forward after five years to allege an attack of such a nature one of the first questions a defence lawyer would be asking is why the wait?  Such attacks are not ever going to be forgotten nor are they, I would imagine, likely to be less traumatic for the victim.

Salmond has by his resigning his membership of the party taken the Westminster dirty tricks dept by complete surprise. OK the dirty tricks department will stumble around for a few hours whilst they rethink their strategy but they will do this and then see to it that even without any more information (short of deliberate government leaking of information provided by their woman at the civil service in Scotland)  that the Salmond case is repeatedly reported on the news channels, even if it is only to say there has been no change in the story.

If Salmond is guilty of these alleged attacks I hope and wish to see him exposed to the same levels of penalty as anyone else guilty of such crimes.

Perhaps there is simply more and more of the tactics used in politics by the likes of the Trumps and Erdogans of the world being used now, then again maybe it is just the UK government in meltdown as they sink under the weight of their internal civil-war caused by their Brexit problems.                 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 03:19:16 PM by Sunshine Meadows »

Sunshine Meadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7655
I am not sure about the politics of the SNP are the conservative as opposed to being left wing eg Labour Party?

It does seem like some people are trying to limit the options voters have next time around.

Teresa May was on tv yesterday giving a speech about Nelson Mandela and talking about him like he was good and wise which he probably was. He was also a member of a terrorist organisation. I need to check how far back the stories about Corbyn go but it seems to me that he has the right to stand up for the Palestinian cause if the sitting Israel Government is causing suffering to people - as long as he is not advocating violence.

I have only been back a couple of days and already have research to do  >angel<

JLR2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1685
Sunshine, so far as I can understand things Corbyn is repeatedly explaining to those who will listen (that takes the MSM out the loop for a start)  that he, Corbyn, does not agree with many of the Israeli government's policies in regards to the people of Palestine and cannot agree to the Israeli government's demand that anyone seen to make less than complementary remarks/comments about the Israeli government be classed as anti-Semitic. I would be classed as such as I despise the government in Israel because of their treatment of the people of Palestine. Having said that I do not mean to imply by omission that I support the actions of Hezbola (sp?)  or any other Palestinian terrorist organisation.

Regarding Alex Salmond, we are now hearing on the news that he is being criticised for using crowd funding for his legal costs as he takes the Scottish government through the legal processes. I would have contributed were it not for the fact that I do not trust the crowd funding page with my banking details as I feel it will become the target for would be hackers. Salmond has every right to ask for such sourced funding. Just because he has a good income is not reason enough to me to see him have to deplete his own banking account to defend himself. I think it well worthwhile remembering the Tory Chairman C Parkinson whom abandoned his love child because the child was seriously disabled from birth, callous and deviant are but two words to describe many of the top Tories, compassion does not get a mention in a True Blue Tory's dictionary.

Let's say for the moment Salmond wins his case clearing his name, both Labour and the Conservatives would be happy just feeling they had cost him a lot of money in doing so. I doubt very much if either of the two parties I have mentioned care a jot about the women involved only that they see a chance to harm both the S.N.P. and chances of a second Independence referendum being called anytime soon.

The more the government in Westminster hammer the gas pedal hurtling the UK into a cliff edge Brexit the louder the calls for Scottish Independence becomes and well the UK government know it and will do anything and everything to stop our Independence. They will fail.

JLR2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1685
‘’it is hard to avoid talk of a major split within the party as well as potentially seismic repercussions for the pro-independence movement itself’’ Libby Brooks Guardian Scotland correspondent.

The only people talking in such terms are the MSM as they seek to support what might be a UK government exercise.

‘’Beyond the retweeting of either Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon’s statements on the matter, it is notable how quiet SNP MPs and MSPs – well known for their embrace of the platform – have been on social media since the revelations first emerged.’’  Libby Brooks Guardian Scotland correspondent.

This Guardian reporter really needs to get a grip of herself and begin understanding the ‘legal’ reasons behind why SNP MP’s and MSP’s are limited to the actions they have taken so far.

‘’But the fact that a man with his evident resources was still able to reach his £50,000 target within hours of launching the appeal is evidence of the loyalty Salmond commands, among senior figures but also rank and file party members and across the wider yes movement – and of how speedily he can mobilise it.’’

‘’His successor may contemplate this as she prepares to update Holyrood on her position regarding a second independence referendum this autumn – something Salmond has taken a less gradualist position on.’’ Libby Brooks Guardian Scotland correspondent.



Contemplate what exactly?  Through suggestion this Guardian reporter is trying to hint to Nicola Sturgeon that Alex Salmond has leadership of the SNP ambitions that threaten her position. Perhaps this reporter’s idea is to see Sturgeon look on Salmond as a threat and in doing so see her, Sturgeon, do everything to put as much distance between the SNP and Salmond with the benefits that would lend to a rUK argument when another Independence referendum is held.

Sunshine Meadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7655
Quote
Sunshine, so far as I can understand things Corbyn is repeatedly explaining to those who will listen (that takes the MSM out the loop for a start)  that he, Corbyn, does not agree with many of the Israeli government's policies in regards to the people of Palestine and cannot agree to the Israeli government's demand that anyone seen to make less than complementary remarks/comments about the Israeli government be classed as anti-Semitic. I would be classed as such as I despise the government in Israel because of their treatment of the people of Palestine. Having said that I do not mean to imply by omission that I support the actions of Hezbola (sp?)  or any other Palestinian terrorist organisation.

No worries I was not thinking you were a terrorist supporter. I remember on one news report someone talked about Corbyn criticising the Israel Government  and how that does not mean he is automatically being antisemitic. It made a lot of sense to me and I do believe powers that be are taking advantage of the silly summer season when parliament is on holiday and news is slow to make a play to discredit Corbyn and weaken his parliamentary position as leader of the opposition.


JLR2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1685
Just watched the BBC's Reporting Scotland program there and again heard their reporter talking of how the support being shown through the crowd funding scheme Salmond has been using is, according to the BBC reporter, some kind of 'warning' to the two women reported as having made claims of sexual abuse by Salmond.

What utter nonsense this is, Salmond is not making veiled/any other threats or trying to silence anyone who feels they have been subject to attack sexual  or otherwise by him. I mean what is the reporter trying to imply?  That Salmond supporters are going to go round to the homes of either of the women making claims of inappropriate sexual behaviour towards them by Salmond to intimidate or threaten them?

Are the BBC now claiming that anyone contributing to Salmond's crowd funding total is guilty of supporting possible sexual offenders simply by their making a donation?  Are they, the BBC, now telling the public those whom they can and cannot support?

Monic1511

  • Moderator Welfare Rights
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
I will admit that I dislike Salmond - as a person he makes my skin crawl.   BUT he has the right to defend himself against any allegations.
There are a few points, IF the allegation is one of drunken groping by Mr Salmond of a civil servant I can see why the person wouldn't complain while working there but they whole thing makes me uneasy as many people will have put hands on others while drunk, not sure that a drunks always mean to assault the person they grab. - I appreciate that this is controversial.   What I dislike about the crowd funding issue is that it will feel to the complainer that they people who donate to the crowdfund have already decided that Mr Salmond is not guilty of anything and therefore the complainer must be a unionist troublemaker out to bring down their glorious leader.
Personally I don't believe he is guilty as he is too canny to get caught like that but I would be scared to criticise any SNP politician as the SNP activists I come across are nasty in their defence of their rights and contempt for any unionist views.

My main gripe with Independence is that nationalisim breeds a view that we are better than the folk not Scottish, if you live 1 mile on the wrong side of the border then your rights are less than your neighbours, we all know northern England is poor and also ignored by Westminster but as a Scot I'm supposed to ignore those people just because of their post code.

In my job I come across many SNP believers who tell me their benefits will increase and they wont have to work ever cos Nicola's gonna sort everything, they don't consider that someone has to work to provide the income they get in benefit - and no I don't just mean disabled people its all of them.   I don't argue as I have been threatened with a doing when I rolled my eyes one day.  Another person wanted their appeal decision heard on the facts that he was pals with Nicola - not that his wife met the criteria to get the benefit just that he knew the First Minister.

I might have this wrong but Mr Salmond is taking the government to court because they have not shown him all the evidence that they hold.  Is that not similar to the crown prosecution / procurator fiscal not disclosing all the evidence to the defence until the charges are made?


Corbyn - has been the enemy of many in Westminster for years because he believes everyone is equal, he has been a supporter of Palestine for years, he's also a pacifist so how can he be a supporter of armed terror groups (Hamas & IRA).  The tory press were very quiet when the Israeli PM criticised an elected member of the British parliament but when President Obama criticised the Brexiteers he was shouted at. 

I don't understand why comparing the actions of the Israeli government to the Nazi's is anti Semitic.  The Nazi's cleared people from their homes and forced them to move a one area of the country so that they could build houses for ethnic Germans.  The Israeli government routinely bulldozes Palestinian towns to build Israeli settlements causing the residents to become refugees in camps in Gaza.   How is that any different but I'm in the wrong to compare the two actions?


I don't dispute Israel has a right to exist but so does Palestine,  Criticism of authorities is useful as it should stop them becoming dictatorships.  Different views have a right to be expressed as long as you can explain calmly why you believe that view.  violence is wrong.

 I do not mind anyone having the right to vote how they want but I dislike the way the media is going about with its campaign against Corbyn, Salmond will come back from this, there are no strong opposition politicians in Scotland, the Lib dems have been dead for a few years, political parties are in meltdown looking for a strong charismatic leader and an ideal to rally behind.


I know some of you might not like my view point but please don't be too harsh.

I cant express my views elsewhere as council employees are not allowed to without getting into the disciplinary process.

JLR2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1685
Hi Monic, like yourself I am not a great fan of Salmond as there are many instances where I have felt he could have done things better or failed to ask a question that to me appeared to be screaming out to be asked. So far as folk the worse for alcohol getting carried away with themselves at parties and touching up others inappropriately goes I feel in the case of this happening in a workplace environment the person doing the touching should be disciplined and warned as to their future conduct, that along with an apology to the person touched up. Depending on the nature of the drunken groping dismissal should not be ignored.

Regarding how you feel about 'nationalism' I myself don't feel this way. I do want to see Scotland Independent, part of the European Union though is something I have my doubts about. I'm somewhat surprised about the attitudes of some you've met who think an Independent Scotland is going to bank roll their lifestyle on benefits, they are in for a shock. My hope in regards to a Scottish government's welfare system only goes as far as hoping it is fairer than that being pursued by the UK government's DWP.

The attitudes shown by those you have met, those benefit claimants expecting a future Scottish government to fund their lifestyles on the backs of those in employment does bring home to me that daft as I am I'm not that stupid but there are real dunderheads out there and it is folk like them who end up trying to bully their local communities, in effect they are knuckle-draggers who's main concern in life is when the pub opens or where they might get their next drug fix. Many are, I feel, the sort who will follow the herd irrespective of where the herd is going.

Regarding the head civil servant's investigation into Salmond's case goes, I can't help feeling if what we have heard from Salmond is correct he has found himself accused but not given complete access to all the details of the accusations nor the chance to defend himself to the same civil servant before she sent her report to the Police, that does sound odd to me.

''I don't understand why comparing the actions of the Israeli government to the Nazi's is anti Semitic.  The Nazi's cleared people from their homes and forced them to move a one area of the country so that they could build houses for ethnic Germans.  The Israeli government routinely bulldozes Palestinian towns to build Israeli settlements causing the residents to become refugees in camps in Gaza.   How is that any different but I'm in the wrong to compare the two actions?''

To my mind it isn't but were I to say so, for example on the BBC's Radio Scotland phone in program, I expect I'd find myself very quickly accused of being anti-Semitic.  Thing is the Israeli government cannot argue against the obvious fact that they have in effect created two huge concentration camps in which they control virtually every aspect of the Palestinian life in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The media strategy of relentlessly attacking Corbyn is the only one May's Tories have and in many ways they hope it will be enough to cause such division in the Labour Party that Labour will be so distracted and weakened by internal battles at the time of the next GE they will be unable to put together a coherent election campaign giving the Tories a glimmer of hope that they might win it by a whisker. Were it to need Libdem MPs in another coalition the Tories would go for it and I would not be surprised in the slightest if the whiff of government again saw the Libdems agreeing as the did under Clegg.

Sunshine Meadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7655
Monic and JLR,

I enjoyed reading both you posts.

I have too much brain fog right now to reply properly but I will be back  :-)

JLR2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1685
'I have too much brain fog right now'

I know the feeling Sunshine >biggrin<

Fiz

  • Charter Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
I do agree that Corbyn is being specifically targeted and misquoted so as to appear his views are one thing when he said something about a totally different subject. This tells me political parties view Corbyn as a threat and as Liberals are unlikely to win a general election, this will ensure Conservatives will remain in power.

But what Labour and Liberals seem not to be thinking about is that in the first truly democratic referendum ever, most citizens voted Brexit. That means they feel strongly enough to back any party that is pursuing that aim and from what I've read, that means labour and liberals are out of the running. So it appears a done deal in more ways than one.

JLR2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1685
'most citizens voted Brexit'

Might have helped if they'd known what they were voting for rather than the vague promises and down right lies being proffered by both sides involved.

Monic1511

  • Moderator Welfare Rights
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2297
The Brexit vote was always going to be a vote for a dream rather than reality.  The hypocrisy now from the Tories is that they are saying that the UK can exist without its biggest trading partner (Europe) and that's why a Brexit vote is a good idea, but how dare Scotland say that independence would not affect the trade between Scotland and rest of UK.   Nationalist will say Scotland can renegotiate deals with the R of UK but Tories say no they can't.  Then the Tories say they can renegotiate deals with the R of EU but re mainers  say no they can't.  To be honest the whole thing makes me tierd.


In my opinion the winners in either Brexit or Scottish Independence will be the lawyers.  Treaties and trade deals need legal documents to be enforceable and take years.  We have a divorce bill for Europe and next it will be the break up of the UK.   My brother is pro independence so I get regular in depth lectures from him,  I know the system is not perfect and due to population size Scotland is never going to get its way if England votes tory.  Its only when England turns against the tories that the rest of UK's voice is heard.  Funny thing is Scotland used to vote tory until Thatcher.   Yes I can see the break up of the UK coming but I'm not sure it will be good for either side.


I have to guard my opinions because I work elections and am employed by the council - council employees are not allowed to broadcast our political views and my council changes hands every few years,  people who work elections are not allowed to be members of any party, on polling day we can't wear the colours of any party and have to be neutral in all our comments.  So after an 18 hours day on election duty Im a bit testy when the Independence side started shouting FIX because they lost.  The No vote did the say after Brexit


The only way we can know the will of all the people would be if everyone voted and voting is not compulsory - even if you just spoilt your paper.  there is a stat showing that 6 million people are not registered to vote and of those registered 34% don't even vote.

This decline started with Maggie using the electoral role to chase folk for poll tax, then when people consistently voted Labour and got a tory government people said there was no point in voting.

Now we need to get the un registered interested and the registered to come out to vote.


I appreciate its a rubbish choice sometimes but If you do not vote you have no right to complain about the result and I think you are shaming all the working class people who fought and died to get the vote for the ordinary person.


The more folk that vote the quicker my day goes as well so its good for me as well.  Non voters also contribute to the cost of elections - I had 8 books of voting papers yet only used 2 of them, all the unused papers have to be kept and stored in case there is a challenge to the vote.


How do we sort our political system?  would it help if we engaged with it a bit more rather than ignoring Westminster as a house of corruption?  When we let them get away with things they take it as permission.


I think I better stop now and thanks for not being mad at me.

JLR2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1685
Good morning Monic, I would like to ask your brother, had I the chance, to leave out his lecturing of you re-Scotland's regaining its Independence. If I were ever to even attempt to lecture my younger sister 'about anything'  let a lone Scotland's Independence I'd soon find my heid in my hauns :-)

My wish to see Scotland Independent simply comes from my being a Scot. The film Braveheart may have been inaccurate in many parts of it but it did reflect the selling out of Scotland to Edward I of England by those who held much of what power Scotland had at the time, in the main those who signed away Scotland's Independence interests were purely selfish and concerned their own standing and wealth. End of my lecture >biggrin<

A change I would like to see at Westminster is one where a PM cannot play games with cabinet reshuffles, I'm meaning to say when a PM feels someone in the cabinet is not right for the position they are in they are moved to the back benches until the next general election has been held. To see the numbers of ministers who have held the DWP as secretary of state since May's election is ridiculous and those she has moved are not much better in the new jobs she has given them. All these reshuffles do is provide a government with a tool to cause distraction in the media and deflect attention from other issues that should be looked into more closely. Mind you I feel the same way about things like the Oscars and other events such as the school exam results being heralded in the media, all other news is virtually lost whilst the media go over the top showing some reporter gushing about some actresses dress on the red carpet or our screens filled with pictures of kids opening their exam results supposedly live on the telly.

Noo I've my own crisis, ah've run oot of coffee, time to refil ma mug >biggrin<
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 07:52:39 AM by JLR2 »

Sunshine Meadows

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7655
Quote
I have to guard my opinions because I work elections and am employed by the council - council employees are not allowed to broadcast our political views and my council changes hands every few years,  people who work elections are not allowed to be members of any party, on polling day we can't wear the colours of any party and have to be neutral in all our comments.  So after an 18 hours day on election duty Im a bit testy when the Independence side started shouting FIX because they lost.  The No vote did the say after Brexit

Well I am glad you are speaking up here  >thumbsup<
I know some one who works for the Department of $%^££££, she is in a position to know allsorts of things about what is really going on yet she has not leaked anything. Working for the civil service used to be a job for life and the last generation of employees to have that are coming to early retirement after 30+ years of loyal (to whichever government). I can see why keeping a pension is important but cant help thinking some people whistle blowing now could make a difference to so many British lives.


Quote
Mind you I feel the same way about things like the Oscars and other events such as the school exam results being heralded in the media, all other news is virtually lost whilst the media go over the top showing some reporter gushing about some actresses dress on the red carpet or our screens filled with pictures of kids opening their exam results supposedly live on the telly.

I am trying to think of what used to be on the Ten Oclock News or Newsnight and it did seem like things were taken more seriously way back. Maybe it has to do with a loss of audience as more and more people dont want to think or do anything about the real world because they feel powerless to make changes.

I am thinking about how what used to be called the middle classes have been squeezed over the last decade.