Author Topic: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?  (Read 1060 times)

JLR2

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2018, 08:52:40 PM »
''I have to admit to despairing at some of the comments on this thread''

I'm not sure quite what comments have caused your despair Lankou, for myself I have only concerns that any videos recorded be duplicated at time of recording with one copy being given to the claimant involved. I think in the main when the Police have recorded interviews with someone the recorded person has a copy made available for their solicitor/lawyer.

All WCA assessments should be at the very least audio recorded and in being so recorded allow a comparison to be made with an assessor's written report/assessment.

I remember two issues with previous assessments I have gone through which I feel could be quite relevant in regards to videoing of assessments. The first happened in the early 1990's, the assessor's report made a comment in relation to my appearance, ''The claimant appeared rather unkempt in his appearance''  I was not applying for the position as his daughter's next boyfriend this remark was uncalled for and the tribunal to which I made my appeal to agreed, the second issue relates to the comment by the GP assessor whom carried out my last assessment for ESA, as I entered the assessment room he remarked to me, ''You look like someone I could trust''.

I've mentioned these two experiences to highlight just how someone's appearance can have an impact on the outcome of their assessment and feel that beyond simply what a claimant says in answer to an assessor's questions or the evidence that the claimant being assessed has provided their appearance will, in the case of videoed assessments, have an impact on their assessment decisions. There could be cases where the claimant is a heavily tattooed person or perhaps say a woman who has borrowed a nicer outfit than she herself owns, maybe from her sister, because she feels she needs to look as tidy as she can only to find that the personal view of the assessor is allowed, even subconsciously, to influence their assessment of the claimant. My last assessor even noted and reported that I could handle a pen as I took notes, (his name and so on)  so there is more to videoing assessments than might cross someone's mind at first thought. There are things like were a claimant wears tie up shoes, 'can tie shoes'  or were I to wear my dress shoes polished to parade ground standards would be very much noticed and noted by an assessor.

Talking of how claimants dress for their assessments brought to my mind another issue where videoing is involved, in the course of many assessments claimants may be asked to remove items of clothing, I was asked to display the damage to my right ankle and the scarring from the operation relating to my knee cap dislocation, how might a woman feel about the security of videoed recordings where she may have been required to remove clothing to particular points of undress?

I think until they (the DWP) have organised the audio recording for all WCA assessments the videoing should be limited.

Monic1511

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2018, 08:51:50 PM »
JLR2 I think it must be me who has caused the despair as I havenít been overwhelmingly upbeat about recording assessments but my view point is that of a representative at appeals.
Maybe Iíll get an explanation and then I can explain my comments.  >dove<

JLR2

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2018, 09:59:46 PM »
Monic, recording assessments really ought never to have been something that folk found themselves calling for and I feel only came about through the chalk and cheese differences in the assessments experienced by claimants and the report put to decision makers. This might come over as a bit daft but I was thinking had the DM's to been given assessments which truly reflected the original assessments they would have been in a far better position to come to fair decisions and many people would not have faced the nightmare they have.

It is all too easy for me to talk of recorded assessments as some sort of cure for bad/poor assessment reporting but as I'm typing away it crosses my mind that although I can hear clearly my thoughts how my accent or spoken word may sound in a recording could lead to some folk trying to work out what I'm saying might not be so easy. I have experienced problems trying to understand my own sister at times when we have been talking on the phone.

A while back I was invited to chat on BBC Radio Scotland's phone in and as is my habit I recorded my tuppence-worth, well when I played it back after the call I sounded terrible, certainly nowhere near as clear as it did in my own head during the phone call. So how things might sound in a WCA recording could likewise not be quite as clear as I'd like to think it was.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 06:53:36 AM by JLR2 »

Monic1511

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2018, 07:46:15 AM »
Small correction making now not underlining added by me- Sunshine

I understand why folk want them recorded, itís supposed to be a fail safe, what I wonder is how the recording would be used. DM donít watch recordings unless theyíre in the fraud unit. They have extensive caseloads and are pressured to make a decision. Next stage at mr will the second dm watch it and read the comments ďx walked 35m to interview room without stopping ď. And reply with walked with no apparent difficulty, would be reasonable to asssume can walk 200mĒ.

Next stage is appeal panels, Iíve had people bring X-rays , mobile phone footage of their childís behaviour and panels refuse to consider it as the X-ray canít be copied and the footage could be of anyone filmed at any time.

How do you assess hidden disabilities like E, diabetes etc and as you mentioned how will the assessor in Cardiff understand the responses given by a Geordie or Glaswegian .

I still believe the criteria is the first part of the problem, yes assessments are flawed, I read plenty of them and we have a list of repeat offenders which our boss feeds back. If your assessment is inaccurate then complain. By not complaining you give it the veneer of credibility.   One appeal judge starts his appeal with ď is the assessment report a true and accurate record yes or noĒ if you say no his next comment is have you complained? Eh, no, then he assumes that it must be true else youíd have complained.  I know thatís wrong but thatís the angle he takes after all you have put the effort into taking your case to appeal.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 10:27:44 AM by Sunshine Meadows »

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2018, 10:25:19 AM »
Lankou,

Thank you for posting more information about this, it is good to know being recorded is not going to be compulsory.

I had not heard that the possibility of assessments being videoed was being looked at so my initial thoughts came from personal experience and the fact I would not like being videoed. Of course this does not mean I would say no one else should be able to choose that option.

JLR and Monic made some good points  >thumbsup<

Are you able to tell me if the videos of the claimants are going to be used for training purposes, in the same way a call to customer service can be?

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2018, 10:49:07 AM »
JLR,

Quote
The first happened in the early 1990's, the assessor's report made a comment in relation to my appearance, ''The claimant appeared rather unkempt in his appearance''

How a claimant looks can affect the points you might get because it speaks to at least a couple of things. Please don't think this is directed at you personally.

- is the claimant physically able to keep themself clean and tidy.
- is the claimant socially aware of the the need to be clean and tidy in public/social situations.

If I got to an assessment with a hairstyle and colour that is high maintenance it might be assumed that I can go to the hairdressers frequently, so can manage in social situations and with my head being moved around eg blow drying and straightening. On the flip side I know if I don't condition and use styling products on my hair it turns into a frizzy birds nest and makes me look unwell. This leads me to think that videoing might assumed by the DWP to be a way of weeding out the (very small) number claimants who are laying it on to get money they are not entitled to. I say this because body language plays a big part of who we each are.

Everyone,

One good thing about having a video of the assessment is it should be more difficult for the DWP to create an artificial intelligence to decide who gets what  >yikes< >erm< ;-)

lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2018, 11:42:05 AM »
(https://i0.wp.com/voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/170317-Tory-disability-policy.jpg?w=480&ssl=1)

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2018, 12:02:06 PM »
Lankou,

Yes it can feel like that is what it comes down to however whilst I was away I did visit other groups where there are more people saying they got PIP. The people who manage the groups encourage members to post their outcomes whatever they are.

It can be difficult to get a balance between talking about DWP, Government and individual assessors wrongdoing and making sure we dont add to the stress by me failing to mention that things can go smoothly for some people.

SteveX

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2018, 12:44:36 PM »
I can understand why a lot of people would like this but speaking personally I would not, I do not want to be recorded video or audio.
I'm a very private person and I don't even use facebook/twitter or own a smartphone because I don't want companies logging my data and recording things I do or send.  heck, I've been 'online' since the late 90's and to this day I've not uploaded a single image of myself and never will.    If this sounds stupid and paranoid, then that's fine but it's the way I am.
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Monic1511

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2018, 08:04:37 PM »
Steve
its not stupid or paranoid, its personal preference,  I have just had a fight with one of the church section leaders as he wants to take pictures of the choir for a publication and put photos on facebook, I refused to have my picture take and if I see any with me in them I report them to FB and get them taken down.  I never gave permission for my image to be posted on a public platform.

JLR2

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2018, 08:06:20 PM »
''If this sounds stupid and paranoid''

Far from it Stevie, I used FB for a very short contact with a mate in Berlin and very quickly closed down and removed the account from them as I too do not like the way FB harvests users info. Heck I don't even use my Co-op card as I'm tired of hearing about the way they track customers purchasing histories.

''This leads me to think that videoing might assumed by the DWP to be a way of weeding out the (very small) number claimants who are laying it on to get money they are not entitled to''

Sunshine that has me thinking of footage shown on a BBC investigative programme, of which the name escapes me, which showed WCA assessors talking about assessments they had carried out. In what I saw the assessors were happily mocking some of those they had assessed. I could imagine Atos assessors sitting around a monitor laughing at a claimant as they are made to perform various circus tricks during an assessment. Perhaps a wheelchair user being asked to mobilise around the room out of their wheelchair or having them attempt to pick up a large box from the floor.

There could also be situations where rather than just the assessor completing his/her assessment report on the basis of what s/he has seen and heard s/he plays the recording to other assessors asking their opinions. I feel without a doubt the appearance of claimants at assessment will carry a lot of weight in the reported opinion of the assessor provided to the DWP decision maker.

lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2018, 07:18:16 AM »
Beats head against wall.  Right the videoing and sound recording will be carried out using the same kit as it used for police interviews under caution. That is twin recording with embedded time markers in real time. (That prevents editing.)
One recording to the claimant and one to the DWP.
The recording will NOT be compulsory for the claimant.

Frankly I think any claimant will need to think long and hard before considering to refuse being recorded.

The DWP has been fighting for years to prevent what is a legal right for a claimant to have ANY assessment videod and recorded.
Because it will stop the "verballing," of claimants and lies being told in the written reports.

JLR2

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2018, 07:58:39 AM »
''Right''  so leave it to mandatory audio recording.

Has anyone heard of the set up for videoing assessments?  By which I mean are assessors shown in the recording or is it only the assessed claimant?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:01:26 AM by JLR2 »

lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2018, 08:25:37 AM »
''Right''  so leave it to mandatory audio recording.

Has anyone heard of the set up for videoing assessments?  By which I mean are assessors shown in the recording or is it only the assessed claimant?

It will be the same set up as a police interview under caution.

JLR2

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2018, 08:34:29 AM »
A claimant sitting across the desk from detectives, as in Police interviews, is not likely to be the set up of an assessor carrying out an assessment of someone's ability/fitness to work.