Author Topic: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?  (Read 1059 times)

lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2018, 08:58:53 AM »
A claimant sitting across the desk from detectives, as in Police interviews, is not likely to be the set up of an assessor carrying out an assessment of someone's ability/fitness to work.

The entire room vuisible fixed camera.

Monic1511

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2018, 07:33:28 PM »
''Right''  so leave it to mandatory audio recording.

Has anyone heard of the set up for videoing assessments?  By which I mean are assessors shown in the recording or is it only the assessed claimant?

It will be the same set up as a police interview under caution.

That description sounds scary and some will interpret it as treating an assessment as the same as a criminal investigation.   I hope its not that way as the pressure on both claimant and assessor will be hellish.

I do understand why people want it recorded but not sure I'd be so open about me health problems if I suspected that the information would be viewed by anyone else.   I know that's not the purpose of recording them but you can foresee the time when the agencies involved ask for a chance to review to see why a claimant was awarded later but the assessor thought it'd be a no.


If the DVD was given to the claimant who brought it to me as an appeal rep I'd have a major problem watching it - our work computers/laptops no longer have a DVD/CD player in them and when I need to listen to a statement of reasons recording I need to take it home and listen at home.  Not sure I'd be happy doing that with an assessment.


There must be a better way than this.

lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2018, 07:43:27 PM »



If the DVD was given to the claimant who brought it to me as an appeal rep I'd have a major problem watching it - our work computers/laptops no longer have a DVD/CD player in them and when I need to listen to a statement of reasons recording I need to take it home and listen at home.  Not sure I'd be happy doing that with an assessment.


There must be a better way than this.

Sorry but people have fough the DWP for a long time for claimants to have assessments videod and sound recorded. Claimants have a legal right for that to be done. I repeat it is not compulsory if a claimant does wnat it done.
Anyone who represents claimants at trubunals should at the very least have the kit to view claimants copy.

The reason for the campaign to get assessments recorded is to stop the verballing of claimants and lies being told about claimants in subsequent written reports.

I suspect when the system is rolled out the need for claimants to appeal will drop dramatically.

(Frankly I am beginning to think those of us who have been campaigning for years about the issue have been wasting our time.)

Monic1511

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2018, 08:54:52 PM »
We already need the ability to listen to the statement of reasons but that hasnít stopped our IT section supplying us with laptops with no cd/dvd player.

If the Scottish Government ever gets its act together re pip assessments itíll change here but it could go either way as hidden disability doesnít show up well on camera, how many kids with adhd get labelled bad behaviour rather than a health problem.

I donít think the campaign has been wasted as we all have to get the system sorted and itís only done by campaigns.

JLR2

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2018, 08:01:38 AM »
''Frankly I am beginning to think those of us who have been campaigning for years about the issue have been wasting our time.''

Come on Lankou, what's that all about? 

As Monic says videoing will not show hidden disabilities. Besides that many of the complaints about what an assessor has provided to decision makers in their assessment report has come down to the claimant arguing they never said this or that or that the assessor never asked about something they have alluded to having asked about. Audio may be able to provide a tone of the assessment, whether the assessor or the claimant was threatening or intimidating in their questions or answers.

I can only guess Monic, that any visually recorded assessments will be recorded to memory sticks, one worry that comes to mind is the security levels in which the assessing companies or the DWP hold these recordings in.


lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2018, 08:40:42 AM »


I can only guess Monic, that any visually recorded assessments will be recorded to memory sticks, one worry that comes to mind is the security levels in which the assessing companies or the DWP hold these recordings in.

The recordings will be carried out using the home office approve system used for police interviews under caution.
ANY breach of confidentialty by either the DWP or a contractor is a VERY serious criminal offence.
The campaign to get assessments recorded is to stop the current verballing of claimants and lies being told by assessors in reports.

ally

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2018, 10:09:35 AM »
If Monic got a copy of my assessment to listen to, she wouldn't hear me at all. It was the assessor and My husband that did all the talking. It would be hoped that anyone watching my video had a good knowledge of sign language.   However, i doubt any assessor. DM, or, welfare advisor would be proficient in sign language, so they could understand,  and, follow what was being signed. Some interpreters employed by the NHS And, the DWP,  don't have medical knowledge.  I've had interpreters in hospitals with me, where I've had to explain about my medical issues during the consultation,  as they had no idea what the Consultant was talking about.   Therefore,  I'm not sure how visually recorded assessments would work with deaf claimants? 

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2018, 10:10:29 AM »
Lankou,

Its good  that we are talking about this though isn't it? After all the people campaigning for this need to take all viewpoints into account. The only way I can see filming working would be to have the videos uploaded to a server and have a high level of security placed on how that information is accessed eg like access to personal bank accounts. DVDs can get be lost or get scratched and become unreadable. Monic already mentioned practical concerns. Do you think the time it would take for a welfare rights would have to take to watch a claimants film footage would have an impact on how many people they could help in anyone day?

I know I took some time out this year nevertheless I would have thought a campaign to get the DWP to allow videoing would have reached the places I was going online but JLR starting this thread was the first I have heard of it. Was it a mainstream campaign could you give me some links so I can see what was said.

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The campaign to get assessments recorded is to stop the current verballing of claimants and lies being told by assessors in reports.

That is a big statement using stop rather than reduce, I know it is only a word but more than most people we know words have consequences.

On a personal note, lots of assumptions get made about Cerebral Palsy and this has meant throughout my lifetime people who have just seen me sitting down and not moving about think I look 'normal'. I know this and so would opt out of the video option and want someone to read how life is for me. My worry is that placing an emphasis on videoing as a good solution to verballing might have people like me thinking it is a good option for them when it isn't.

We have each experienced life differently and it's important for us to share what we 'know' from our point of view.

 >dove< >dove< >dove<

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2018, 10:13:09 AM »
Ally,

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Therefore,  I'm not sure how visually recorded assessments would work with deaf claimants?

Good point. It would similarly apply to visually impaired people.


lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2018, 02:42:07 PM »
ALL the videoing and sound recording is supposed to stop is the verballing  and lies by assessors, it is NOT a magic bullet to make a silk purse out of the sows ear of the Mansel Aylward version of the biopychosocial model of disability used for both ESA and PIP assessments.

But as the trade union saying goes ask for tuppence take a penny.

JLR2

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2018, 04:24:10 PM »
''ANY breach of confidentialty by either the DWP or a contractor is a VERY serious criminal offence.''

Given we've now seen a group found guilty of an underreporting of a £100,000 spend in the EU referendum fined £400 I doubt the DWP would give a, 4 letter word, about a claimant's confidentiality being breached. Perhaps were such breaches to carry a mandatory prison sentence of no less than a year the DWP might pay heed.

Talking of security were the DWP to be subjected to a ransom-ware attack the damage to the UK benefits system would be catastrophic, in the main for claimants.

lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2018, 06:46:15 PM »
''ANY breach of confidentialty by either the DWP or a contractor is a VERY serious criminal offence.''

Given we've now seen a group found guilty of an underreporting of a £100,000 spend in the EU referendum fined £400 I doubt the DWP would give a, 4 letter word, about a claimant's confidentiality being breached. Perhaps were such breaches to carry a mandatory prison sentence of no less than a year the DWP might pay heed.

Talking of security were the DWP to be subjected to a ransom-ware attack the damage to the UK benefits system would be catastrophic, in the main for claimants.


Frankly I don't knoiw why I have been bothering about this issue for a very long time, as I appear to have been wasting my time.
The recordings will be protected by patient confidentiality. They will also be protected by the law and anyone breaking it could be subject  to a length jail sentence. (As several police officers have found out.)

JLR2

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2018, 06:58:30 PM »
''Frankly I don't knoiw why I have been bothering about this issue for a very long time, as I appear to have been wasting my time.''

Lankou, I cannot get where you are coming from, none of us on here are against the  audio recording of 'all' WCA assessments and always have been mainly due to the seriously inaccurate assessments provided by the likes of Atos. It was not so long ago that Atos and similar assessment providers were fighting tooth and nail against providing recording of assessments, at one point telling claimants they could only have their assessment recorded if they themselves provided Police quality dual recorded recordings. The change in things has come about through the involvement of visual recording of claimants and the concerns that such recordings bring to the whole assessment issue.

lankou

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2018, 09:30:12 AM »


Lankou, I cannot get where you are coming from,.

That I am afraid is the problem. Video and audio recording with embedded time stamps will stop the current problems of verballing of claimants and the lies in reports.
(That is why the DWP and the contractors are so opposed to it.)
I am despairing at the comments on this thread.

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2018, 11:09:59 AM »
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I am despairing at the comments on this thread.

Are you despairing because the comments are related to aspects the campaign had not expected?

I know there are only a handful of us posting but surely you should have heard comments like this already as the campaign was set up. What was the old groups campaign slogan 'Nothing for us without us.' ?

The more we talk the more we learn  >dove<