Author Topic: Right to die trumps right to live  (Read 3132 times)

Jockice

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Right to die trumps right to live
« on: May 13, 2013, 07:27:01 AM »
I turned on BBC1's Breakfast News this morning and the lead item was about the case being held at the Court of Appeal today in which two severely disabled men want the right to die.

Without commenting on my views on the subject - probably because I'm not in their situation and I can't make my mind up - it's funny how the BBC doesn't seem to give such prominence to things like the closure of the Independent Living Fund and benefit cuts which will affect many thousands of disabled people, some of whom may even want to carry on being alive. It's as if they want the viewers to think that being disabled is somehow an unbearable burden not only on disabled people but on society itself.

Just saying...

Fiz

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 07:48:52 AM »
It's because the private members bill trying to change the law for terminally ill people with a certified less than 6 months to live to be able to have an assisted suicide is about to be launched so it is right here right now.


Dic Penderyn

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 08:07:23 AM »
Trouble is for me at any rate that no one is able to say exactly how long some one may have to live with a 100% accuracy, I have known personally at least three people who have been given a few months to live who where still around some years later.

Who is sponsoring the bill.
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Yvette

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 09:44:56 AM »
It will again be stopped by Baroness Jane Campbell who is dead against (pun intended) any form of assisted suicide.

I don't know if the BBC really want viewers to think that being disabled is somehow an unbearable burden not only on disabled people but on society itself as much as attempting to put forward the views of the two severely disabled men who want the right to die.

If the BBC had left out the 'severely disabled' bit,  people would be asking what the reasons they had to want assisted suicide.

Unbearable pain, because not all pain can be relieved without actually causing death is something that would want me to have the right to assisted suicide.

It is available in different countries in the EU and in certain states of the USA and I have not found any stats on how it has been abused by greedy relatives wanting to see off their rich parents.  Or children who cannot or do not want to care for their parents.

As far as I have been able to ascertain, applying for assited suicide is a very rigorous procedure and if there are any doubts whatsoever about the motives for asking for assisted suicide, the person is not accepted for the procedure.

Fiz

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 09:48:40 AM »
That is the problem Dic, you can't get CHC funding for social care for people for love nor money because Doctors refuse to sign to say a service user has less than 6 months left to live so I can't see this being any different. I've applied for CHC funding on a few occasions, no Doctor would sign to say the patient/service user would live less than 6 months so I failed on all attempts. All of them died within 2 months, one less than a week. I didn't know if the Doctors were protecting the NHS budget or what. 

More on this Bill being proposed on 15th May here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22432308

Dic Penderyn

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 10:09:03 AM »
My Mother-in-Law had an inoperable brain tumour we were informed by the doctors that she had about four days to live she actually lived for three weeks from that time three weeks of pure torture for her and us, she had food and water denied for that period of time though when the nursing staff removed her water my father in law would go and retrieve it she had no chance of survival but he just could not accept that. She persisted for that three weeks in a near vegetable state and we kept going by imbibing rather large quantities of alcohol to ease our pain.

I do believe that it would have been kinder to have administered an overdose of morphine and let her go with a bit of dignity and much less pain and suffering. It is an experience that  will live with me for the rest of my life. It was horrific.

Dic
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Fiz

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 10:15:18 AM »
My mother died of a gastric bleed. Her intestines leaked blood into her stomach as her system had all broken down and she vomited blood and screamed and cried for 10 days. That is still my overriding memory of her 7 years on. The organisations such as care not killing are clueless and oblivious to the fact that often pain and sickness cannot be controlled and when terminally ill personal choice has to be parmount and powerful. I guess those of us who have seen the pain and suffering are going to feel very strongly about it. I suscribe to the dignity in dying facebook page so I get the updates. I think we will get there in the end but how many people suffer in the meantime.

Jockice

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 10:23:45 AM »
I'll just try and clarify what I was saying in my first post. I wasn't saying: ''How terrible that people who want to die should be given publicity." I'm certainly not one of those people who think life is a precious gift that must be preserved at all costs. It's the prominence given to the story when compared to the paltry amount of publicity given to other things that affect a much larger number of disabled people that makes me think there may be a - possibly subconscious - agenda there.

Fiz

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 10:43:31 AM »
Yes I realised what you were saying jockice, I was just saying this is big news right now as the new Bill is about to be proposed. Unfortunately the devastation the cuts are causing the disabled and poor is a daily occurance and not something set by a specific week or date. I think we can do our bit by circulating the stories of the results of the cuts on social media and making it stay in the public eye as much as we can so people not affected realise the consequences of the cuts.

ATurtle

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2013, 11:06:37 AM »
I think I understand Jockice's point.
  • Two people want the right to select a quick removal from the pain that they live with constantly (at a guess).
  • One hundred thousand people are being hit by cuts and confusing changes to benefits.

Which one is more newsworthy?  According to the BBC, not the item that affects most people!
Tony.

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Dic Penderyn

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2013, 11:32:23 AM »
The days when you could expect impartiality and balance from the BBC in their reporting of news is long gone. Even in their choice of what to include and what to exclude.
Be careful in what you wish for, God has a sense of humour

Yvette

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2013, 12:47:41 PM »
A friend's huband died from secondary bowel cancer a few years after he had had a colostomy.  He had dreadful arthritis so he and his GP thought his stomach pains were caused by the arthritis meds.  They weren't.

He collapsed at  home and was taken to hospital where he died a few weeks later in agony.  I was visiting on one occasion when he was begging his wife, my friend, to get a gun and finish him off as he was in so much pain.

People who refuse to allow others the choice of dying without pain and agony have never seen someone suffer obviously.

AndMac

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2013, 01:41:04 PM »
I'm as annoyed as Jockice by the selectivity of the BBC.

I think a lot of the problem is that needing support in the home is something that you just can't envisage until it happens to you. It isn't a glamorous topic and a lot of that support is invisible, behind closed doors.

Whereas, we all must die and so must all those we love. We all, in theory, could be affected by this story. We could all need support to live in our own homes too, but somehow that message does not have the same impact.

My mum was a very experienced geriatric nurse who was terrified of going senile and often said that she wanted to have her life ended before that happened. As it was, she died of leukaemia at 67, and was compos mentis right to the end.
"I might repeat to myself slowly and soothingly, a list of quotations beautiful from minds profound - if I can remember any of the damn things".

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Dic Penderyn

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2013, 01:53:44 PM »
Also as was just said on the news this is not so much about the right to die as it is about having the right to ask some one to kill you not quite the same thing.

But the BBC have been banging on about this all day. Nary a mention of other news items that affect us so deeply.

Jockice I agree with you the BBC are very selective over what news items they run.
Be careful in what you wish for, God has a sense of humour

devine63

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Re: Right to die trumps right to live
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2013, 11:23:13 PM »
"I didn't know if the Doctors were protecting the NHS budget or what. "

sorry to be cynical - the only thing these doctors were doing was avoiding the minute possibility that they might be sued if the person happened to live longer than 6 months.   That would far outweigh any possible benefit to the patients.
regards, Deb