Author Topic: ESA50/ESA3 please help  (Read 6288 times)

helene2014

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ESA50/ESA3 please help
« on: 17 Jan 2014 08:16AM »
Hello Everyone,

Can someone please tell me how long it take to process those forms first one is the ESA50 I filled that form for my friends and send it off  October 31st 2013 and have not heard anything at all to this day, I daren't chase it up in case I'll open up a whole can of worms!

Second I filled again for my friend Form ESA3 as she came to the 365 days rules her ESA contribution-based WRAG ended 31st December 2013, she never had a letter from dwp to inform her that her Contribution-based ESA will stopped, the last payment she's had was 27th December 2013 again how long does it takes to hear from them?

The most I am worrying for her and seek advice, being put in the WRAG she was called last June 2013 for a work program appointment with Ingeus and we had to get a private room for her which Ingeus provided that appointment was pretty bad her work adviser was somehow abrupt with my friend Cathy good job I went with her and helped to fill in her form, she was never asked to sign the work program form because the work provideradviser agreed she is very far away of getting better any sooner and cannot participate in any work group activity, I have that on video recording! Cathy suffer from severe depression, anxiety,  panic attacks, severe Migraine since childhood and other illnesses also when I filled in her ESA50 I wrote a note attached to that form and mentioned about her Ingeus appointment letting them know I have on voice recording of what the adviser said during her first appointment with them.

Ingeus sent a letter for her next appointment on the 2nd of July I had to cancel that appointment because she was too ill to go and rescheduled another appointment, her work adviser said she was leaving Ingeus and that a new work advise will be in touch when I ask for proof of their Medical Professional because that work adviser was supposed to be someone who deal with people with mental illness but I never got a reply and never heard from them until last week Cathy received another appointment due 2nd February 2014 from a new adviser asking her to come with a cv and looking for work, the problem is she cannot leave the house because of her illness which they know and I have also put that on her ESA50 now we are worrying if she does attend that appointment ATOS will say she is fit for work but I will be going with her and ask for a private room on her behalf like last time.

Any help and advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance


helen



« Last Edit: 11 Feb 2014 05:27PM by SunshineMeadows »

Fiz

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #1 on: 17 Jan 2014 09:47AM »
Hi Helen,
I got my results from my ESA50 after 6 months from submitting it. My own experience of reading around the web, the longer it is until you hear, the better the result seems to be. Those turned down for ESA (0 points etc) tend to hear fairly quickly!

No idea about the other form but I see you had some answers on cag http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?414666-ESA-stopped-without-notice-urgent(1-Viewing)-nbsp

You seem to have been an amazing help for your friends. I hope the next wrag appointment goes as well as the last one. Just a quick note of advice, you are not allowed to record the interviews yourself. You can ask them to record the interview in advance and ask for a copy of the recording but cannot record it yourself officially. Many people do, but because it is not allowed they don't tell to tell them at any stage there are going to or did do, and because it is not allowed to be done any evidence gained cannot be used in a Tribunal if you wish to appeal a decision.

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #2 on: 17 Jan 2014 10:08AM »
Helene,

Welcome to Ouch Too.

The length of time it takes to process a form varies and can be over 3 months. Given the DWP and 'checking they got the ESA 50 your friend sent in should not open a can of worms because it is a simple yes or no answer and so cant lead to anything else. I have not heard of anyone who was checking the progress of a claim having problems because they rang in.

Quote
she never had a letter from dwp to inform her that her Contribution-based ESA will stopped, the last payment she's had was 27th December 2013 again how long does it takes to hear from them?

When the law was about to change the DWP did send out letters informing people of the time limiting to Contribution based benefit but I dont think they still send letters out towards the end of the time limiting.  People can be entitled to Income based ESA is there income is low enough.

Quote
I have also put that on her ESA50 now we are worrying if she does attend that appointment ATOS will say she is fit for

Going to the Work Related interviews is a component of being in in WRAG and quite a few of us attended 6 interviews over about 6 months and then have nt been asked to go back for a year or two. Attending a interview at the Jobcentre cant be used to say a person is job ready because it is nowhere near working hours.

Some people have had bad experiences with the advisors at the Jobcentre eg the advisor being too pushy, the way some people deal with it is to be firm and as clear as possible in explaining what they want to do eg they do want to work, what obstacles there are to work, and also they impact trying to work has on them. For the most part this approach does help.

It is good that you are helping Cathy and that you are their with her at the interviews should be enough. I would advise against recording the conversation or taking videos. A nice advisor would find it of putting and a less than helpful advisor might react negatively.

Last yearq uite a few of us were still in the WRAG and on reassessment were put into the Support Group. In my opinion the ESA process is still unfair but it has improved  a lot.

Monic1511

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #3 on: 17 Jan 2014 12:36PM »
Hi Helene

I think you(Cathy) really need to phone to confirm that they have received the form and if it is still with the decision maker.  If Cathy is still getting the money then she is still in the wrag,  if she can't attend the work interview then you really need to get supporting evidence that she meets one of the support group criteria, ask her medical people for a supporting letter.

As for time length - on renewal some people are not even getting letters although they should. I really don't think a phone call will hurt, it might be beneficial if its with the decision maker if you can tell them her condition is getting worse due to the anxiety of waiting for a decision.

Monic

helene2014

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #4 on: 18 Jan 2014 02:24PM »
Helene,

Welcome to Ouch Too.

The length of time it takes to process a form varies and can be over 3 months. Given the DWP and 'checking they got the ESA 50 your friend sent in should not open a can of worms because it is a simple yes or no answer and so cant lead to anything else. I have not heard of anyone who was checking the progress of a claim having problems because they rang in.

Quote
she never had a letter from dwp to inform her that her Contribution-based ESA will stopped, the last payment she's had was 27th December 2013 again how long does it takes to hear from them?

When the law was about to change the DWP did send out letters informing people of the time limiting to Contribution based benefit but I dont think they still send letters out towards the end of the time limiting.  People can be entitled to Income based ESA is there income is low enough.

Quote
I have also put that on her ESA50 now we are worrying if she does attend that appointment ATOS will say she is fit for

Going to the Work Related interviews is a component of being in in WRAG and quite a few of us attended 6 interviews over about 6 months and then have nt been asked to go back for a year or two. Attending a interview at the Jobcentre cant be used to say a person is job ready because it is nowhere near working hours.

Some people have had bad experiences with the advisors at the Jobcentre eg the advisor being too pushy, the way some people deal with it is to be firm and as clear as possible in explaining what they want to do eg they do want to work, what obstacles there are to work, and also they impact trying to work has on them. For the most part this approach does help.

It is good that you are helping Cathy and that you are their with her at the interviews should be enough. I would advise against recording the conversation or taking videos. A nice advisor would find it of putting and a less than helpful advisor might react negatively.

Last yearq uite a few of us were still in the WRAG and on reassessment were put into the Support Group. In my opinion the ESA process is still unfair but it has improved  a lot.

Thank you SunshineMeadows, for your reply appreciate it no we are leaving atos or dwp well along with regards to the esa50, no way we would open up a big can of worms, we've had enough problems with them to know when to keep quiet if they do. The work program she has is with Ingeus and looks like she is in similar situation as it has been 6 months since her last interview. I was also told that Cathy can record her appointment if the appointment take place in a private room obviously you ask the adviser but it is allowed, it is not allowed if the appointment is in a room full of people.

 I will be asking for a private room for her again, her next appointment is the 4th February 2014 but will send a letter or email next week to ask for the private room so they don't tell me it's not enough time for them to ensure there is a private room available because I know they will try anything to get away with what they can.

I've been with her to most of her interviews even her last medical with atos when she was migrated from IB to ESA, when she was on IB they said it was indefinite because of her severe depression, good job I went with her to her atos medical,  I reckon she would have failed that straight away because of the questions that was asked was so tricky but I managed to answer everything for her after realising what the atos examiner was doing, lol he was wondering whether I was a welfare right officer or something! 




helene2014

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #5 on: 18 Jan 2014 03:18PM »
Thank you Fiz and Monic appreciate your replies, I rang the dwp on  Cathy's behalf yesterday with regards to the esa3, the chap told me they still have not received it yet and said it could be with their sorting office and said once they receive the form it would be process very quick. I also care for Cathy's mum, she  suffers from advanced dementia and is in a care home for dementia, it was me who got the ball rolling, sort out the hospital, care homes, social services the lot because cathy herself could not handled her mum's illness and circumstances.

When I took Cathy's mum to one of her hospital appointment the lady there asked me if I get carer's allowance for both the mother and Cathy I said no, she then gave me a leaflet about it saying I should be receiving carer's allowance but I won't bother to claim carer's allowance for looking after either of them because I myself are on Income Support under ill health, I passed my medical outright got my results within two weeks, I am sure at some point I will be hearing from dwp about claiming esa50 etc.

If I claim carer's allowance my income support probably be stopped then I will be worse off leaving on 65.00 a week instead of the payment I have now of 100.00 per week, I also have my son to take care of I cannot afford to feed, my son, cathy and myself on 65.00 whilst she is not receiving any money, it is very hard for us at the moment. I can only do my best and help her and  her mother.

Thanks ladies for your replies.


Helene :)

Monic1511

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #6 on: 18 Jan 2014 06:30PM »
Hi Helen
carers allowance is only payable for one person and as cathys mum is in care home you couldn't get carers allowance for her anyway,   carers for cathy is a complex issue as she may be in receipt of "severe disability premium SDP"  which is paid if you live alone and no one claims carers allowance for you.   On the other side if you got carers allowance you would also be due a carers premium of 31.00 - you would be best to request a benefit check or go to a site like entitled to dot com.

Im not going to make a guess as your amounts but it would be best to check your entitlements

monic

helene2014

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #7 on: 19 Jan 2014 01:01AM »
Hi Helen
carers allowance is only payable for one person and as cathys mum is in care home you couldn't get carers allowance for her anyway,   carers for cathy is a complex issue as she may be in receipt of "severe disability premium SDP"  which is paid if you live alone and no one claims carers allowance for you.   On the other side if you got carers allowance you would also be due a carers premium of 31.00 - you would be best to request a benefit check or go to a site like entitled to dot com.

Im not going to make a guess as your amounts but it would be best to check your entitlements

monic

Thank you Monic, yes I did mention that to  the lady at the hospital, Cathy do not get any other benefit only her ESA WRAG  that is all nothing else, I am not sure whether the severe disability premium is included in the ESA WRAG payment but by the look of the letter about her benefit don't look like she gets other benefits. Cathy is homeless has been since her mother had to go into a care home 3 years ago for severe dementia, she's been staying at my house since, I've tried to get her a council place from Islington council because she has been living with  her mother's house  for years and before that when she was a child but the council took the keys from me, long story but there is a case about it when I get the chance I shall look into that for her, she's is just too ill to cope with anything at the moment.

I don't think I will bother with carer's allowance it's not worth  the heartache! I've known the family since I was a child myself they were my next door neighbours before my parents left and we lived someone else. I am quite happy to be of help to both cathy and her mother, money doesn't come into it especially when it's to do with the dwp. Some sleeping dogs are best to let them lie ie the dwp lol!


Helene :)

devine63

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #8 on: 19 Jan 2014 02:24AM »
Hi Helene

you mentioned that your friend Cathy only gets ESA.   Does she know that [if her condition is severe enough] she might be entitled to Disability Living Allowance [DLA]?  DLA can be paid whether she is working or not.   There might be other benefits that she and / or you could claim - and DWP have no obligation to tell you about them, you have to apply and see if you can get them.  I would suggest you both visit your Citizens Advice Bureau and ask for a benefits check for each of you.

I realise you may not want to go this route, but it's worth thinking about as it could improve the income to your household (i.e. both you and Cathy taken as if your incomes were combined):

if Cathy is not related to you and is living in your home, and she is she is effectively a lodger and I believe it is perfectly legitimate for you to "charge her rent" - and she should then be able to claim Housing Benefit. 

There is a Rent a Room scheme which means you are allowed to "earn" that rent money without paying tax [see http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/individuals/tmarent-a-room-scheme.shtml  ]  but I am not sure what effects that income has on any benefits you are claiming, so again you need a benefits advisor - and it will make a difference whether the rent payment includes a contribution to gas / electric / water bills and so on.

regards, Deb
 

Monic1511

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #9 on: 19 Jan 2014 06:20PM »
Helene

Cathy will not be entitled to SDP or you entitled to carers allowance unless Cathy recieves DLA Middle or high rate care or the care component of Personal Independence payment (PIP) which is the replacement of DLA.

I think you should be asking social services for help in getting Cathy a house of her own with support - this will not likely happen very quickly but if you get her registered you might get a response in 6 - 18 months depending on the demands on the council.   Even is you just get her registered then you can see what if anything is offered and deceide then with Cathy what she wants to do.

Monic

devine63

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #10 on: 19 Jan 2014 09:35PM »
thanks Monic - yes of curse I should have remembered that if Cathy is making a new claim it will be for Personal Independence Payment [PIP] rather than the old DLA [but if she is already getting DLA then she will stay on it for now].   This is the govt's information about PIP:  https://www.gov.uk/pip 

regards, Deb

helene2014

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #11 on: 23 Jan 2014 09:03AM »
Hi Helene

you mentioned that your friend Cathy only gets ESA.   Does she know that [if her condition is severe enough] she might be entitled to Disability Living Allowance [DLA]?  DLA can be paid whether she is working or not.   There might be other benefits that she and / or you could claim - and DWP have no obligation to tell you about them, you have to apply and see if you can get them.  I would suggest you both visit your Citizens Advice Bureau and ask for a benefits check for each of you.

Thank you for your advice, yes I was told by the job centre last year about DLA when I went for one of my appointment, people on Income Support was calling in supposedly checking if they are getting  the right benefit, I am on Income Support under ill health the lady asked me about someone living with you etc, I told her I have someone else living in my house apart from my son and I and that she is homeless and receive Incapacity Benefit and that I have proof of everything it was then she gave me a leaflet about DLA, Cathy never went through with it she is not well enough to cope with any trauma and stress and cannot fill any form, normally I tell her about any letter or form she receive after that I have to take matter in my own hand and deal with them because she just cut herself off from any paperwork or life itself.

I realise you may not want to go this route, but it's worth thinking about as it could improve the income to your household (i.e. both you and Cathy taken as if your incomes were combined):

I read so many horror stories and Cathy is aware of it too it's not worth either of us to risks our health for any extra money, both of us are quite happy to live on what we get, she and I   struggled but we managed, we don't have a social life, we are both literally house bound.  I cannot go out because I suffer from  agoraphobia and panic attacks and of course Cathy with her severe depression and other illnesses, neither one of us been out for years, nor do I have sky tv, we don't use mobile phones, my eldest son bought me, my TV and computer otherwise I would have nothing. Cathy and I our lives are very basic so I guess we managed on our single benefits money, we keep our money separate.

if Cathy is not related to you and is living in your home, and she is she is effectively a lodger and I believe it is perfectly legitimate for you to "charge her rent" - and she should then be able to claim Housing Benefit. 

Cathy is not related to me, she is a neighbour we've lived next door to each other since I was 15 years old and she was 20 years old.  We are now both in our fifties. I doubt I am allowed to charge her rent because I am on Housing Benefit and Council Tax which if I did charge her my housing benefit and council tax would stop there's nothing I can do when it comes to any money I have literally decides to just forget about anything else and just concentrate on my Income support and live on that it's a no win situation. Cathy live in my house rent free, nor do I charge her for electric etc, her money goes on food, cigarette and anything else she might need which doesn't last long. She cannot claim anything because she is homeless and my council will not give her a place and told her they will be sending her back to her own local council even though she has been living in my borough for more than 6 months allowed before you can get a place in a different borough.


There is a Rent a Room scheme which means you are allowed to "earn" that rent money without paying tax [see http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/individuals/tmarent-a-room-scheme.shtml  ]  but I am not sure what effects that income has on any benefits you are claiming, so again you need a benefits advisor - and it will make a difference whether the rent payment includes a contribution to gas / electric / water bills and so on.

It's good to know of all these things but again it won't apply to me, I am afraid I am stuck with Cathy, she has taken over my lounge and I stay in my bedroom so we can have our own spaces. God only knows what the future hold there are times when I feel like just walk out of my home and let her have my flat for sanity's sake, social worker can't help her because she is homeless so for both her and I there is nothing, all we can do only to just breath and survive the best we can.



regards, Deb

Thank you Deb, I appreciated your help and advices.

 

helene2014

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #12 on: 23 Jan 2014 09:18AM »
Helene

Cathy will not be entitled to SDP or you entitled to carers allowance unless Cathy recieves DLA Middle or high rate care or the care component of Personal Independence payment (PIP) which is the replacement of DLA.

Cathy doesn't get any other benefits apart from her ESA contribution-based which has stopped at the moment she doesn't receive any money, last money she had was 27th December 2013. Cathy is still waiting to hear about her ESA3 it's getting quite desperate, I will ring the dwp today and ask for her to have the Short Term Loan benefit, she was told nothing from the dwp only was aware about her esa contribution-based stopped because when I checked there was nothing in her bank account.

I think you should be asking social services for help in getting Cathy a house of her own with support - this will not likely happen very quickly but if you get her registered you might get a response in 6 - 18 months depending on the demands on the council.   Even is you just get her registered then you can see what if anything is offered and deceide then with Cathy what she wants to do.

I have already rang Social Services that was 4 years ago when she moved in with me they said they could not help her because she is homeless and need to have a permanent address of her own, also council no longer give properties, nor do they help if you are homeless, you have to go elsewhere and help yourself find a room to rent that's what my local council said since October 2013 homeless people can no longer go to them for help with housing.


The main concern we have now is to get back her ESA I do not have a clue how long the ESA3 take to process I rang the dwp last week they said they haven't received the form even though I sent it recorded delivery, I will ring again today to find out.

Monic

devine63

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #13 on: 23 Jan 2014 05:51PM »
Hello Helene

I really think that you should try again - after 4 years living with you, I don't see how anyone at the Council or DWP can regard Cathy as Homeless - she's not homeless anymore,  she is a non-relative who lives with you, because you were kind and generous and took her in.   There are ways that you can do the form filling for Cathy, if she is unable to do it herself, just ask whoever you are dealing with about how that can be done.

 I really suggest that you re-consider: from what you tell me, you and Cathy may both be entitled to Housing Benefit (I'm assuming your home is rented, but if it is not then HB won't apply for you).   You might also both be entitled to Personal Independence Payment - though that does depend on how severe your difficulties are - and if you get PIP that does not affect other benefits.

It might also be worth getting an opinion from Social Services for both of you about what your support needs are, as there may be things they can do to help you.

All in all, it might be best to start at Citizen's Advice Bureau - ask for a benefits check for both of you.   You really should not have to cope with the level of financial and other stress you have described.
regards, Deb

Fiz

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Re: ESA50/ESA3 please help
« Reply #14 on: 23 Jan 2014 06:10PM »
Deb, Helene is in receipt of HB already which is covering her rent. Therefore Cathy has no further rent to pay as the property rent is already covered by Helene's HB.

Cathy's loss of ESA does mean though that she can no longer contribute to the utility bills though and pay for her own food so am hoping the forms arrive and are processed quickly. Helene, many food banks deliver so if you need to then do contact your local food bank.