Ouch Too - a place for and about disabled people.

Forum => Welfare Rights => Topic started by: Fiz on 09 Mar 2018 04:54AM

Title: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 09 Mar 2018 04:54AM
My CPN thinks it's really important that I apply for PIP mobility as I'm housebound at present due to pain and it's seriously impacting my mental health.

I have phoned the PIP current claimant's change of circs phone line and apparently the PIP claim form for a change of circumstances is slightly different to the main claim forms but is much the same on the whole. And it takes 3 to 4 working days to get to me. I'm guessing even though it's a change of circs form there will be a time limit for returning it.

With the mobility rather than just focusing on the distance I am able to walk, I am going to focus on the pain walking causes me, not just at the time, but a walk can leave me in intense pain requiring me to bed rest for 2-4 days depending on the walk and neuropathic triggers during the walk. Obviously I have the pain relief evidence I take 24/7 in order to move around the house but the top up medications too that is needed before I need to walk or before I get in and out of a car (always very painful) and the medication needed to recover from a walk.

When answering a question am I right in thinking that when you consider whether you can do something, that you have to be able to say you can do something repeatedly and reliably in order to say yes you can do it? Some phrase like that is ringing bells somewhere.

Any advice on completing the form based on pain the actions give rather than can I walk a set amount of metres would be greatly received. My CPN feels that there's no chance that I will lose my care award because the points awarded at my 2016 PIP assessment was way and above the points needed for enhanced and I'm much worse than I was then.

I'm dreading the whole thing but my care coordinator has returned from maternity leave and the difference in my mobility, obvious pain and my mental health being far worse due to being housebound says it's incredibly noticeable to her due to the 15 months since she was my care coordinator before.

She's going to fill in the forms but any pointers appreciated plus pointers to discuss with my GP to discuss regarding a letter of evidence from her. For one thing, all my appointments to see her are adjacent appointments to the friend who can give me lifts when she's not working, without those lifts I can't see the GP and we talk on the phone. She can say that, list me medications, info from the Spinal Consultant and she's aware of the pain I get walking, and after walking too.

My CPN has returned from maternity leave working only part time now, and only works Wed-Fri so I just hope any face to face assessment if needed will be on a day she's available to take me. I guess even a change of circs application will still require a face to face and they won't just accept my application form and evidence from my CPN and GP. From what the man on the phone said, it sounds as if they process these claims faster than new or renewal claims but that was implied rather than said.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 09 Mar 2018 10:55AM
Yes, there's repeatedly and reliably and other stuff.  You have to be able to keep doing stuff as often as needed.  Eg. it's no use being able to walk to the bottom of your drive if you can't, after a reasonable break, walk back up it.  It's no use being able to go to the shops (even if it means taking a  taxi there) if you're then laid up in bed for several days.

I'll see if I can find a quote or two.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 09 Mar 2018 10:56AM
Safely - in a way that is unlikely to cause harm to you or anyone else, either during or after you have completed the task.  The DWP must consider whether there is a real possibility of harm occurring that cannot be ignored, considering the nature and gravity of the harm in question.

To an acceptable standard - a standard that is good enough; ie of a standard that most people would normally expect to achieve.  An example of not completing a task to an acceptable standard would be if you can wash yourself but you do not realise you have done so inadequately and are still not clean after you have finished.

Repeatedly - being able to repeat the task as often as is reasonably required.  The cumulative effects of symptoms such as pain and fatigue are relevant because the effort of completing a task could make it harder for you to repeat it or to complete other tasks.  For instance, if you are able to prepare breakfast without help, but the exhaustion from doing this means that you could not prepare another meal that day, you should be treated as being unable to prepare a meal unaided.  This is because it is reasonable to expect someone to be able to prepare more than one meal a day.

In a reasonable time - no more than twice as long as the maximum amount of tie that a person without your physical or mental condition would normally take to complete the task.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 09 Mar 2018 11:00AM
I don't know where I originally got that from.  Perhaps someone else could identify the source.  I just know I found the definitions and kept them, which means they're either statutory or from case law not just a personal opinion.  That doesn't mean they couldn't have been amended.

But at least they're a starting point.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 09 Mar 2018 11:31AM
BTW - just noticed the time at which you posted your question, Fiz.  It was rather early.  You  might just be an early bird or something, which I'm not, but I find myself wondering whether worry or pain was keeping you awake.  Just in case, have some hugs.

 >bighugs< >bighugs<
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 09 Mar 2018 04:51PM
Safely - in a way that is unlikely to cause harm to you or anyone else, either during or after you have completed the task.  The DWP must consider whether there is a real possibility of harm occurring that cannot be ignored, considering the nature and gravity of the harm in question.

To an acceptable standard - a standard that is good enough; ie of a standard that most people would normally expect to achieve.  An example of not completing a task to an acceptable standard would be if you can wash yourself but you do not realise you have done so inadequately and are still not clean after you have finished.

Repeatedly - being able to repeat the task as often as is reasonably required.  The cumulative effects of symptoms such as pain and fatigue are relevant because the effort of completing a task could make it harder for you to repeat it or to complete other tasks.  For instance, if you are able to prepare breakfast without help, but the exhaustion from doing this means that you could not prepare another meal that day, you should be treated as being unable to prepare a meal unaided.  This is because it is reasonable to expect someone to be able to prepare more than one meal a day.

In a reasonable time - no more than twice as long as the maximum amount of tie that a person without your physical or mental condition would normally take to complete the task.

Thank you sunny, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking of and what I need. I hope it's still currently accurate. Giving this to my GP will help her know what to write too because it's so easy to think a person walked from A to B without thinking the pain and inability to function afterwards aren't relevant.

I am struggling at the moment, so sleep is almost non existent. I'm not functioning well either so it's just taking each day hour by hour. I've just completely switched the contents of tomorrow's online shop, when I first placed the order I put ingredients into the basket but now I'm well below being able to cook so switched that lot to hand to mouth things which is more appropriate at present.

I'm not looking forward to going through this but everybody who knows me says I will definitely get standard rate mobility and some people think I'd get enhanced. I have no idea but as my CPN is going to do all the forms and in her words "we can but try". I absolutely hate the face to face assessments too. But any award given now will hopefully mean my next assessment won't be until 2021 if I get a 3 year award. I just need to chill if possible until the forms arrive really.

Thanks for your help sunny.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 09 Mar 2018 05:04PM
If you can get in the mood for a good read, this covers your above points (and much more) as well -  the DWP guidance for assessors themselves:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/665635/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Monic1511 on 09 Mar 2018 08:26PM
Fiz
the change of circs form I have seen asks questions like.
Meal Preparation
Please tell us about your ability to make a meal.
is it Better, worse, no change

You tick one of the boxes and then there is a box that says, if there has been a change please tell us what has changed.
Personally I dont like this form because the dwp compare it to the original award / refusal rather than what happened if a case was won at appeal.

For yourself I believe that the CPN is thinking that you would meet the criteria about going out and under Planning and following journeys.
you get 10 points for E: Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psycological distress to the claimant.

then your looking for 4 or more points for distance.  Moving around: can stand and then move more than 50 meters but no more than 200 meters either aided or unaided - 4 points.   or  can stand and then move more than 20 meters but no more than 50 meters either aided or unaided 8 points.

If you got 1e and 2 c = 18 pointsyou would get an award of enhanced mobility.

I think the way to do this would be to get out the original award letter and then keep that next to you when doing the form.

You are correct about repeatedly reliably and safely - this is where people with epilepsy win at tribunal  - there is a comissioners decision that says something like if you cannot complete the task safely all of the times them the dwp has to treat you as being unable to complete the task .

good luck
Monic
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 12 Mar 2018 04:23PM
Fiz

For yourself I believe that the CPN is thinking that you would meet the criteria about going out and under Planning and following journeys.
you get 10 points for E: Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psycological distress to the claimant.

then your looking for 4 or more points for distance.  Moving around: can stand and then move more than 50 meters but no more than 200 meters either aided or unaided - 4 points.   or  can stand and then move more than 20 meters but no more than 50 meters either aided or unaided 8 points.

If you got 1e and 2 c = 18 pointsyou would get an award of enhanced mobility.

I think the way to do this would be to get out the original award letter and then keep that next to you when doing the form.

You are correct about repeatedly reliably and safely - this is where people with epilepsy win at tribunal  - there is a comissioners decision that says something like if you cannot complete the task safely all of the times them the dwp has to treat you as being unable to complete the task .

Actually we'd been thinking of the pain walking causes me. If I walk a distance, quite possibly 200 metres, I wouldn't manage to get home again because the pain is unbearable. Not only that but if I had walked that far I am in so much pain that I am bedridden for 2-3 days to recover. Because of this I rarely leave the house.

But today, completely by chance as I live in complete chaos and it's something I thought I'd never see again, I found my original PIP claim form and the letters that my GP and my CPN wrote in support of my application. Both the professional support letters stated that it's virtually impossible for me to leave the house as it causes me extreme distress and I wrote that on my claim for too. And yet in that section the assessor gave me the points for "needs prompting to go outdoors and engage with people" so I scored 4 for mobility rather than the cannot make a journey due to distress which would have been more points though not enough then to make any difference to the outcome. Looking back I had all the evidence I needed for the is unable to make any journey due to distress but a) I was relieved to be awarded the care component and realise I wouldn't starve and b) I did not have the mental ability to challenge any decision. I was detained under the MHA a month after the decision arrived.

It's true, I rarely go out. I'd go to my local shop if it weren't for the pain it would cause me but I don't go because of the pain. I was thinking of saying although I can walk X distance this causes me severe pain for which I take a, b and c medication and then require bed rest for 3 days until the pain eases so I thought that I would meet the repeatedly section sunny quoted. I can honestly say that I've never left the house more than once a week because it takes me so many days to recover and that one trip a week is when I'm picked up and dropped off.

So I'm thinking we need to outline clearly both the cannot make a journey because of the distress caused and the mobility cannot be made reliably or repeatedly.  I've the SH that evidences how distressed I get going to appointments  and how I react afterwards to calm my distress but I guess that means showing someone and it's something I've always tried to hide. I have a few paramedic slips describing wounds and stitches.

When I had a car I'd attempt to go to church, and I'd sit at the back as inconspicuous as possible but if I had a panic attack as I frequently did I could leave the church through the rear doors without being noticed and drive home. I haven't been to church since the car went in March 2016 because although my friend has offered me lifts and has said she'll sit at the back with me despite liking to be at the front but if I have a panic attack which usually happens, I can't just up and leave when someone else gave me a lift and it's too painful to walk home. So I've not been to church since March 2016.

So I need to say again that I cannot undertake a journey due to distress it cases me, I had the evidence for that last time so I guess I get the same again, and I'm also going to explain the impact one walk can have on me and how long it takes to recover so I cannot walk repeatedly and reliably.

Does that sound any good Monic? 
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Monic1511 on 12 Mar 2018 08:31PM
Hi Fiz
The criteria has changed for the mobility and the government has been told they cannot discount psychological distress, I know it was ignored last time but I'm not sure if it was ignored because of the illegal rule change or because the assessor didn't think it was all the time.  That's why you got 4 points

I know what you mean about pain but your looking at proving you cannot mobilise between 0 and 20 meters to get the enhanced rate solely on physical health issues,  that's why I mentioned your psychological distress.

one thing that jumped out at me was the statement " When I had a car I'd attempt to go to church, and I'd sit at the back as inconspicuous as possible but if I had a panic attack as I frequently did I could leave the church through the rear doors without being noticed and drive home."   
Now I am playing devils advocate but the first thing your asked is - Is it a manual car -please say its automatic as they are seemingly easier to manoeuvre.   Then how often do you drive, for how long and does the dvla know of your illnesses.  Then it would be how can you drive home safely while having a panic attack.    From the DWP point of view to drive means you can multi task and concentrate and control a lethal weapon - as the chair said to one person "you drive your manual car around the town doing the nursery run but you cannot prepare a simple meal like beans on toast, is that correct?"  Person said yes because I know the route and only do this particular drive, my partner makes the meals because I'm not safe in the kitchen."   

I've just re read your statement and I would word it like this:

Due to the extensive pain I live with I am not able to walk more than 10 - 15 steps without having to stop and rest.  I cannot repeatedly walk and distance due to the pain. If I have to walk a further distance it takes me 3 days to recover from the pain and the effects of the medication I need to take to complete the task.    (this is the second part of the mobility questions)

Planning a journey:  Due to my mental health problems I am rarely able to leave my home.  I become so distressed at the thought of having to go out and engage with other people that I start to shut down and cannot function.  the fear overwhelms me to the extent I neglect myself.  I have been detained under the mental health act X times as a result of my distress.   Even going to familiar places leaves me so exhausted physically and mentally that I cannot go out more than once a week.  I only leave my home when I must go out and have missed several necessary appointment due to my inability to leave the home.    The stress of thinking about leaving home causes several days of distress.

you are on the right track with your answers just don't mention driving   >lol<   >bighugs<
Monic
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 13 Mar 2018 06:31AM
Thank you Monic, that is VERY helpful.  I definitely feel more prepared for it this time. I can be all over the place with my mood disorder and I think last time I was too unwell to cope with the form. That's another reason the system is broken in my opinion.

I read somewhere that if you are completing a change of circumstances form, they rarely call you in for a face to face assessment,  I really hope that's true. I don't cope with appointments well, and afterwards I calm down in harmful ways. When I'm in an unwell phase I can't even see my GP despite her being fantastic.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 15 Mar 2018 05:40PM
I've just spoken to my GP on the phone. She says she has patients far less distressed and in far less pain than me who have mutability cars and she will totally support my claim. She's taken some notes as to what to put in a support letter as well as a list of all my medication citing those for pain, both 24/7 patches and top ups and she'll also cite the distance I can walk without it leaving me in days of pain. I feel well supported by her. But I told her that it scares me to feel even the tiniest bit of hope that if I get enhanced mobility, I can swap it for a car and I could leave the house which would be amazing,  but having even a tiny bit of hope scares me because if it comes to nothing, I know I will go to dark places. The thought of staring at the same 4 walls all day every day for life etc.

Sometimes I think taking that piece of hope and applying for this change of circumstances is too dangerous a step for me to take.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 17 Mar 2018 01:09PM
Well the dreaded PIP application form arrived today. It's identical to my 2016 form except for the rewording of the unbearable distress caused by making a journey which they would have had to change having lost the parity of esteem case in court. I had a panic attack when I saw it and felt mad trying for an increase due to change of circumstances when I'm not due a reassessment until 2019 but then logically I can see why my CPN wants me to apply in the hope that a mobility award could allow me to leave the house, my mental health has plummeted since becoming housebound due to pain on walking and not having a car and she's thinking practically how to change the practical situation I'm in, in the hope I will have fewer lows and they wouldn't last so long. She's due here on Wednesday and I will read to her the answers I wrote last time on the form with regard to care needs and see if she feels it's the same or I've got worse etc and I'll use the same answers as before if nothing has changed.

Obviously mobility wise things have changed massively since my 2016 assessment so she and I will have to think carefully about the wording of answers and what I put in the extra information box for each mobility question. On Monday I will try my best to phone the DWP to request an extension of time but if I can't manage to my CPN can do it on Wednesday.

Any changes to the care needs I will note down while my CPN is here and then I will write my previous answers in with any necessary changes after my CPN has left to save time so we can use her visit to discuss the mobility and journeys questions. The mobility questions are going to be hard. My GP says she's going to write that I can't walk more than 50 metres without severe pain that requires bed rest for days afterwards to recover. And she's going to say that I can only walk that far because of the opioid patches and other opioid painkillers I take. She'll list all of my medications and how frequently I've been using each.

I told my GP that I'm really scared. If I have even the tiniest of hopes that I might be able to leave my house and go somewhere if the decision is what we believe is accurate and I get turned down then I'm scared I won't cope with the disappointment. Taking this step of going for a change of circumstances,  which is completely true, is a step into the unknown. Like a big black hole and you can't see any light.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 17 Mar 2018 04:41PM
Of course you'd be scared, Fiz - who wouldn't - but it really does sound like you've thought it through and garnered the support and the backing evidence you will need from both the CPN and the GP, as well as doing a lot of work on the application yourself.  We can only do our best with what we have at the particular time, after all, and you're doing just that...

Quote
I can see why my CPN wants me to apply in the hope that a mobility award could allow me to leave the house, my mental health has plummeted since becoming housebound due to pain on walking and not having a car and she's thinking practically how to change the practical situation I'm in, in the hope I will have fewer lows and they wouldn't last so long.

At long last!  Sometimes there are matters in life that aren't going to magically improve by just telling a person how to 'think in a different way' about them.  Your CPN seems more switched on to reality now!
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Monic1511 on 17 Mar 2018 07:17PM
Fiz
the dwp will not give an extension until its a few days 3 or 4 before the return date so if its not due back for over a week then wait before phoning them  >bighugs<

GP says she's going to write that I can't walk more than 50 metres without severe pain  Its 20 meters now for enhanced mobility if that's the only points you'd get but you should get 10 for psychological distress and some for distance as well
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 18 Mar 2018 05:23PM
Yes monic, although I rarely leave the house due to pain. I can't honestly say I can't walk 20 metres. I get up in the morning and go downstairs, feed and let the dog out while taking medication in the kitchen and making a mug of tea. Then the dog is let in and I take my mug of tea to bed so I must have walked 20 metres doing that. I do combine journeys, if I'm hungry I wait until I need the loo to do two things in one journey. All I know is I can't get myself anywhere from my house so I'm housebound. If I'm being picked up to go somewhere (rare, there's only one person who has done that and she's struggling at the moment) I take strong pain killers before I go and take 2 types of opioids with me and diazepam wherever I go in case I get "stuck" by pain or anxiety but I'm hearing less and less from that person which I can't blame her for. She's been my only practical help I've had and she has her own MH problems and works 32 hours a week in shifts so she has enough on her plate already. I think due to the shift work, she needs to cut her hours or she will crash and hit crisis.

My GP feels I meet the criteria for enhanced mobility so we'll see.

I can't help it but my mind goes to the difference a car would make. I could take my dog somewhere and let her out of the car for a run around and I could sit and watch her. My daughter had her when I was in hospital at the end of last year and she was walked daily with her but I haven't been able to take her anywhere for a couple of years. I just can't walk. And if she ran after an interesting dog/ball/smell and doesn't come back, what do I do? It doesn't bare thinking about. I can't get into a car without neuropathic pain so I've been looking at the additional cost of adding a swivel seat to a mobility car. There are electrical versions I couldn't afford or manual swivel seats that might be possible in a few months. I have no idea how you manually make the seat swivel from front facing to facing out of the side door without effort that might trigger my back. Then I try and slow down and tell myself it will be a miracle to be awarded enhanced mobility so the chances of ever having a car and any freedom is exceptionally low so I must stop thinking of the difference a car would make to my life. It will just make any negative answer a million times worse.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: ally on 18 Mar 2018 08:04PM


I didn't use any boxes for further information.  I typed everything onto a word document. I then attached that to the form.   As well as using the medical evidence i had,  proving why I fitted the various criteria.   I also used my own personal experience.  One example was when I was mobile.   I was left on a train by myself.  The lights were switched off, and it took off to the depot with me on it.  I had no idea the tannoy had told everyone to disembark at the last station.  I used something similar to that for the planning and following a journey descriptor.  I'm sure you'll have an example of your own experience of psychological distress that you can put on the form.  However,   Monic may think otherwise, and, as  she's more experienced.  I'd take her advice first.

I really hope you're successful. At times  I've been concerned about you, and, others on the forum.  You all deserve so much better.  Good luck  >hugs<



Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 19 Mar 2018 09:54AM
Thank you Ally. I don't own a computer or laptop and I discovered last week that the town's library has been closed a while now as it's being refurbished, things you have no idea about if you don't go out, so I can't even borrow a library computer. I can't write a lot at once as I have rheumatoid arthritis in my hands and wrists so I will probably complete the form 2 pages at a time. I hadn't thought about real life experiences. I've got scars to prove my distress but I can't really show the assessor those but I maybe my CPN could mention them, not that she's ever seen them. I didn't think to ask my GP to mention them either.

I don't go to places because of the distress. My one friend who has helped me in the past has offered to pick me up and get me to church as I have no car but I'd have no way of leaving when I panic with no way of getting home and I can't ask someone to whom church is important to forgo it in order to get me home so despite church being an important part of my life, I've not attended since 2016. I think your example demonstrates clearly the difficulties you have but I'm not sure I have anything as clear cut. I avoid the distress so don't do things because I'm not able to manage the distress without harm. I've no evidence without photos which I'd not want anyone to see that that's true. So I guess in the end it's down to whether they believe what I say.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: ally on 19 Mar 2018 07:02PM


The below is an uptake of going out, or, Planning and following a journey. You need to show why you suffer from social anxiety leaving the house, and, the things, such as overwhelming psychological distress that stops you doing this.  Do you need prompting to leave the house?   Monic made a good Start a few posts down.

Undertaking a Journey - this is do with mental health issues such as agoraphobia and social anxiety and is concerned with you leaving the house to go somewhere, they will be interested in the things that stop you doing this. You need to show that you would suffer "overwhelming psychological distress" to meet the criteria. The higher points for (e) require that you cannot undertake any journey, if you can go out with the support of someone else then you won't score. 

Following a route - This activity about the problems you would have navigating a route.  It's for those who have problems cognitive, sensory or mental health issues that would prevent them from doing this.  From what I've gleaned, This is different from undertaking a journey, in fact if you cannot undertake any journey then you will struggle to score points for following one.  I used my sensory disability.  The fact that I can't ask directions, and, used a personal experience I'd had in the past.  You may suffer from acute anxiety, or, a panic attack being in a situation where you have to speak  to male bus drivers, or, strangers to ask directions etc?

I'm sure you'll score something for the moving around section.  You need 12 points for the enhanced mobility rate.  it's difficult to score 12 on moving around, as Monic has pointed out the criteria was changed to 20 m.  Therefore, you need to aim at scoring as much as possible on both moving around, and, going out.  Whatever you put on the pip form should remain confidential.  Therefore. I'd put as much  information as I could on the form.  The only way they're going to know how bad your MH is, by you telling them. 

The way I look at it.  You want EM to stop you becoming isolated.  The isolation makes your MH worse.  Therefore, you really need to give yourself the best possible chance to improve your situation .  I know you're anxious about it.  It shows in your posts.  However, nothing ventured, nothing gained.  You can but try.   >x-fingers<



Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 21 Mar 2018 08:14AM
Thank you Ally, you're really understanding. My CPN is due here this morning so it will be the first time I will look at the form itself but we'll spend the time on the mobility and getting out and about section I'm sure. I'm having a really stressful week this week, next week should be calmer but I need to thinking about sending it off at the end of next week or the Monday after the weekend. If I can get it to a post office somehow, as I shall want to send it signed for. That's a problem to think about later.

I am virtually not sleeping and I'm considering asking for ECT. I talked about it when I was in hospital as I was just as unwell when discharged and the consultant said psychotherapy was what was I needed and you can't have psychology alongside ECT as ECT affects short term memory so you wouldn't remember the psychology you are learning. Almost 4 months since being discharged and I'm still on the waiting list for psychology.  If I'd had a course of ECT 4 months ago maybe life wouldn't be such a daily struggle now. I suspect though that they think I'd be needing a monthly maintenance ECT to keep the affects up but that might not be the case, who knows. Life is just such a struggle.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 21 Mar 2018 09:24AM
My CPN has postponed until Saturday. She says she'll bring her evidence letter to me then. Also she tells me that I am due to meet the Psychologist mid April so ECT is out of the question now. Even this change is stressful. I don't cope with stress.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Monic1511 on 21 Mar 2018 06:26PM
 >bighugs<
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 24 Mar 2018 03:41PM
CPN was here this morning and we kind of discussed what would be useful to say in her evidence letter and that's what we spent most time on oh and I asked her to say I need a home visit for the face to face. Then she went and I made a start on the actual form. I've a copy of my 2 year old form and I thought I'd be basically writing in what was on my previous care section but actually it made me realise quite a few things are either more difficult or no longer possible due to pain and the depressive lows being more frequent and lasting longer has made things harder or impossible and I hadn't really realised that so there was more to say and I've used a good chunk of the area left for extra information already where I didn't use that area last time at all. I've reached the end of the care section but my back pain was bad so I've taken morphine plus the neuropathic pain has triggered my bladder with the usual consequences and I find that is emotionally distressing as I do the pain. Then I feel guilty because many people have had to manage urinary incontinence for either many years or most of or all of their lives and I'm just a self pitying heap who's only had to experience it for 12-18 months so I need to get hold of myself and realise how well off I am physically compared to so many other people.

Having taken max dose of morphine I've decided to leave the mobility section for another day, as well as photocopying any evidence to go with the form and the whole application form once it's finished. In one way I just want it done but I'm fuzzy headed on painkillers so it would be stupid plus I have actually achieved a big chunk of the form already today. I am so knackered and all I've done is see my CPN and make a start on the PIP form.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Monic1511 on 26 Mar 2018 09:05PM
 >bighugs< It does take it out of you doing theses forms  >thumbsup<
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 26 Mar 2018 09:12PM
I haven't managed any more of the form yet as I've been in too much pain. But I'm hoping to complete the actual form tomorrow leaving only the evidence to gather. It occurred to that photocopying the front and back of both my blue badge and my registered disabled card might be good evidence. Who knows
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 26 Mar 2018 10:34PM
 >bighugs<
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 05 Apr 2018 12:18PM
I had a letter from the DWP today saying that they haven't received my PIP change of circumstances form and that my current payment will stop if they don't receive my form by the set date they will cease any further PIP payments. I was 99% sure this letter crossed post with my form arriving there even though this new letter is dated 2 days after my form arrived there but I phoned to check it had arrived. I sent it special delivery and online it said it arrived there but I still needed to reassure myself it was in the system. It is.

The recorded message I listened to before joining the phone queue with that dreadful music was that on average it takes 4 weeks from them receiving my change of circumstances form before I hear anything else. I asked about that and the lady explained the difference between either a brand new PIP claim or a DLA-PIP transfer than the change of circumstances process even though the forms sent out are the same.

New PIP claims are received by the DWP and are immediately sent to the consultation company who decide whether or not a face to face consultation is needed, it's rare that it's not. That company decides whether to grant any concessions asked for in order for the consultation to happen.  Then they send out an appointment date, they complete the consultation and they send the DWP the results of that and the DWP decide whether to or what to award if at all.

With my reconsideration, my form is received by the DWP and first of all it is sent to a DWP decision maker who looks at the form and evidence and decides whether they have all the information they need to make an award or whether a consultation is needed. If they decide I need a new consultation then they then send my form and evidence to the consultation firm and they decide what concessions they feel are needed and it carries on from there like a new claim.

Because a change of circumstances form goes to a DWP decision maker first and then they decide whether a consultation is needed, if they decide it is rather than it being 4 weeks on average to hear about a consultation date, it would be 6 weeks on average for a reconsideration form to be informed of any consultant appointment because it takes an extra 2 weeks as it's been to a DWP decision maker first. So I make that 10th of May approximately before I will hear about my face to face consultation appointment. Seems like forever. It was useful to be told the process and time scales though.

I wonder how many change of circumstances forms have a decision made by the DWP decision maker and not need to be sent on for a consultation. Very very few I would imagine.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 05 Apr 2018 01:21PM
I just know that my application and request for reconsideration and further info etc. seemed to be sent round in circles, so as I see it, so long as you've got the evidence (which you have) that you sent the paperwork in, then unless you're in financial crisis, accept the fact that you can't rely on when you'll get a decision.

I say that as someone who gets very angsty about these things, so this isn't someone who's just calm not seeing that it's stressful, just saying that if it takes longer it doesn't necessarily mean the worst.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Fiz on 05 Apr 2018 04:58PM
Im not expecting anything in particular time wise and she did say the average wait for a consultation letter offering an appointment is 6 weeks so I realise it can vary hugely before or after that average. Ive never gone through the process of requesting a reconsideration but from the people who have been through that the timescale for that process is usually a long one. Probably a far larger number request a reconsideration of a decision than the amount of people who come forward with a change of circumstances. Even though ive sent good evidence im still expecting the decision maker to refer me on for a face to face consultation despite it not always needed with a change of circumstances so im expecting it to be ages before a decision to be made. By the sounds of it a change of circumstances often takes longer than a new claim because the form and evidence goes to a decision maker before and after the Consultation so it's a longer process for me.
Title: Re: Repeatedly and reliably?
Post by: Monic1511 on 05 Apr 2018 07:48PM
Fiz
well done first for phoning them when you got that letter, now you know the timescale hopefully you can try and shelve the stress for a wee while.
Monic