Ouch Too - a place for and about disabled people.

Forum => Talk => Topic started by: JLR2 on 11 Oct 2018 08:04PM

Title: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: JLR2 on 11 Oct 2018 08:04PM
Whilst reading one of the Universal Credit stories on the Guardian's web pages I noticed the following.

The government was explaining that those being moved over from ESA would not lose money, well call me a daft, way off the mark wishful thinker but I was given to understand that those moving from ESA would be required to submit a new application for Universal Credit, maybe I'm thinking in terms of the claiming process for PIP, anybody put me wise to things?

Oh and on the claim that no one transferring would lose money, they will when it comes to the yearly inflation up-rating of the benefits as this will not be provided for those passported from DLA.

Edit to add to title - Sunshine :-)
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong?
Post by: Monic1511 on 11 Oct 2018 08:27PM
If you are transferred by the DWP from legacy benefits (ESA/JSA/Child or working tax credits/housing benefit/Income Support) on Universal credit THEN you will remain on the same money as you will be "transitionally protected".  If they every reintroduce the annual increase by 1% then your money will not increase as you would be getting more than a new UC claimant


ESA claimant in support group with PIP standard daily living - current payment 175.05/week = 758.55 monthly
new claimant to UC ESA support group with PIP standard daily living current payment 646.14(without any housing element paid)


If you have a material change - found fit for work and have to claim UC as no income / move from one local authority to another and need to claim housing element / take on a partner / have your first child - all of those situations would close your legacy benefit claim and as a new claimant to UC you have no transitional protection so would only get the £646.14 rather than the amount you had before.


As all welfare rights officers keep going on about - There are no disability premiums in UC and no disabled child tax credit or disabled workers tax credit extra money.


 >crying< >steam< >yikes<
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong?
Post by: JLR2 on 11 Oct 2018 08:46PM
''new claimant to UC ESA support group with DLA (HRM/MRC) ?

Sorry Monic but I am a bit clueless when it comes to detail like this.

''If they every reintroduce the annual increase by 1% then your money will not increase as you would be getting more than a new UC claimant''

So I was right in thinking it is in effect being cut, albeit slowly.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong?
Post by: Monic1511 on 11 Oct 2018 09:11PM

If anyone is on ESA and in support group and have DLA high rate mob and middle rate care then the only way they would have to claim UC would be if they moved from one local authority to another and needed housing benefit.  As housing benefit doesn't exist they would need to claim UC.   The other way they MIGHT have to claim UC would be if they were found fit for work and their ESA claim was closed.  They would have a choice - they could claim UC, put in a mandatory reconsideration of the ESA decision and wait for the decision and maybe appeal tribunal.  If they subsequently win their ESA appeal they WILL NOT return to ESA with all the additional premiums. If they claim UC then the door is shut on legacy benefits and they cannot get back onto ESA. 

 If you live in a full service area and are found fit for work closing your ESA claim and you have that PIP award you COULD exist on your PIP while waiting on the ESA MR to be done, once the ESA MR is accepted at tribunal stage you would go back onto ESA at the assessment phase while waiting on the appeal to be heard, since you have PIP you would get a disability premium as well.


Yes the whole thing is a money saving exercise and they have been upfront about that BUT they haven't explained that its because there are no disability premiums.

SG - support group money gets paid - WRAG work related activity group post April 2017 money does not get paid
DLA middle rate care /PIP standard rate daily living entitle you to the severe disability premium if you live alone, any award of PIP gets your a disability premium on ESA or JSA but these dont exist on UC.

Have I confused you enough? it's getting late and Im starting to confuse myself  >lol<
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong?
Post by: JLR2 on 11 Oct 2018 09:30PM
 >thumbsup< Yup I'm fair confused >lol<

If the government isn't embarrassed into pausing the roll out of UC I would expect at some point next year to find we are being forced onto UC. One of the big mysteries to me just now is quite what is going to happen in Scotland, in so much as I've heard about the Scottish government taking control over many of the disabled benefits so will this mean those of us in Scotland will be spared the UK government's roll out when that comes?

As you've said Monic, it is getting a bit late, besides I need to refill me coffee mug >biggrin<
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong?
Post by: JLR2 on 11 Oct 2018 09:44PM
£1589.1 = 5 weeks at £317.82 so in theory the DWP is expecting claimants claiming Universal credit to have at least this level of money available to live on whilst they wait five weeks for their first payment of UC. Just how many would be claimants of UC does the government think are sitting with that sort of money lying in their bank accounts?
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 12 Oct 2018 04:37PM
JLR Good topic for a thread, I just helped you out with the title  :-)

Monic I am so glad you are here to post the answers you do.  >bighugs<

During my time away from Ouch Too I did notice some people were talking on Facebook about Old Style ESA. It seemed like people who asked to keep getting Contirbutions Based ESA would do but they had to ask for it. I just did some Googling and :-

https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/types-of-esa  Not much really useful information on the Government link meh

This link does better https://www.youreable.com/forums/showthread.php?20738-UC-and-new-style-ESA-and-ESA

Quote
Existing Contribution Based ESA claims stay outside of UC, and stay as they are - 'Old Style' ESA governed by the 2008 regulations.

Does anyone know what happens if a person entitled to Contributions Based ESA was switched to Income Based ESA can they return back to getting Contributions based ESA?

Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 12 Oct 2018 08:53PM
If you are on cons based ESA and become entitled to income related ESA then the guidance I have been given is that you need to ask for a revision of the decision to pay only cons based esa as you are now entitled to an income related element.

The scenario of cons based ESA to income based and then back to cons would only happen if you were on ESA WRAG for 365 days, your contributions expire after 365 and then after reassessment you get put into the support group.

As long as you don't claim UC and have no breaks in your legacy benefit claim you can remain on it.   What you can no longer do in a full service area is go from ESA WRAG to employment and if you last less than 12 weeks go back to ESA.  There were linking rules that said if your break was less than 12 weeks and it was for employment you would go back to ESA - No longer so just before UC came in we were advising people NOT to take jobs if they already had ESA.  too risky for them.



JLR2 - the government assumes everyone has recourse to savings or enough credit to last a month with no money.   As for the amounts - its monthly and there are no weekly calculations.


If you made a claim today 12th October then your assessment period is 12th of one month to 11th of the next.  On the 11th of every month DWP asks HMRC how much income you have had since the 12th of the previous month.  They will then deduct any earnings off your standard allowance and release the payment which takes 7 days to hit your account.  This is why people get their assessment periods mixed up as they only notice when they get paid - in this case 17th of November.


A single adult needs £317.82 per month which is 3813.84 per year, we all know there are 13 4 week periods in a year so if its a 5 week month you just need to make your pennies last - you can see why everyone is skint.


There are many issues with UC and they would probably need a thread each as it gets very confusing.
 >doh<
Monic
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: JLR2 on 13 Oct 2018 09:30AM
''As for the amounts - its monthly and there are no weekly calculations''

Aye, but you knew I knew that didn't you Monic >biggrin<  I used the figures I found elsewhere on another web page.

Regarding the 13 x 4 week months point, I feel it might be an idea for the DWP to decide if it is using the calendar month system or the 4 week system in 'all'  its calculations. This 4 week versus calendar month issue is something that could have an impact on my visiting Berlin as one of the questions on the BF5 form used by the DWP for temporary absences abroad asks, ''Have you been abroad in the last 3 months?''  I use the 4 week count and look to arrange any future flights with at least 12 weeks between previous visits. So far I have not faced any questions but like many things about the DWP and its systems I don't take things for granted. Thankfully, in a sad roundabout way, I will not be needing to travel so much as my friends in Berlin will now be able to visit me here in Scotland.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Fiz on 14 Oct 2018 12:23PM
The government say they are deliberately changing to 12 calender monthly payments per year because this is how employed people are paid and this supposedly will get us used to monthly income so it's easier when we start to work. And that's when we all get miraculously better of course.

I am dreading UC. I can't see me managing to manage the money side of things, I only hope that rumour that people with mental illness will be allowed to have their housing benefit/rent portion of UC paid directly to the landlord/LA is true and is actually being allowed to happen with the roll out or I'll be at risk of homelessness.

Hopefully the police will be fitting alarms and locks to my house soon, I've no idea if that will prevent the LA from bullying me into downsizing. There isn't another LA property in my town that meets my needs that is a 1 or 2 bed property. Even the LA admit they don't have such properties. The LA lady I spoke to says the measures the government are taking are unrealistic ad cruel and they were her words!
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: lankou on 14 Oct 2018 12:32PM
The government say they are deliberately changing to 12 calender monthly payments per year because this is how employed people are paid and this supposedly will get us used to monthly income so it's easier when we start to work. And that's when we all get miraculously better of course.



That is THE big problem with UC 13 payments of benefits a year just does not mesh with 12 wages payments a year.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: JLR2 on 14 Oct 2018 04:35PM
I can but only guess at this but here goes, a guy or woman gets a job paid monthly OK now the employer has told this new employee what their wage will be over the course of a year's employment, let's say the employer has explained the job pays £23,000 a year, it would hardly be beyond the employer's capabilities to divide this wage by 12 or 13 and were it required by 52 weekly payments so why not the government?

A 13 month payment system would do a couple of things, first it would allow the government to, as it claimed its point of monthly payments was about, get claimants to start budgeting for monthly wage payments but perhaps more useful would be the avoidance of the situation whereby those on the 12 monthly payment option did not face the problems of double month payments as would happen due to five week months being part of our calendar. I might be wrong but I'm sure I heard somewhere that the DWP under UC do not allow for 2 payments of UC in any one month period.

A 13 month (4 week payment) system might also be of some use where someone is working as self employed for much of the same reason as I was just suggesting. Perhaps I'm just havering....again :-)
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 14 Oct 2018 05:29PM
Fiz - Landlords can apply for direct payments when they have vulnerable tenants, you can request it as well but normally only after the first payment is made to you.  Discretionary housing payments are also available to people on universal credit the same as folk on housing benefit and you should reapply - I know they refused you in the past but you need a spare room for a carer.


As for monthly payments being a reflection of employment - why then did we see a massive escalation in pay day lenders - oh wait it was because employed people couldn't make their wages last the month  >doh<  If you cant do it in employment how the heck can you do it on state benefits.

The DWP is aware that thousands of local authority employees who get or will be eligible for UC are paid 4 weekly, they already know that these people will have 2 payments within the one assessment period that COULD close their UC claim as they will technically have had too much money that month and will get a nil payment.   The DWP are already aware that these people will need to reclaim UC to make sure they get a payment the following month.    If your paid fortnightly or weekly this could happen to you 2, 3 or 4 times a year.

Its only under the Scottish system that some UC claimants are paid 2 weekly but its the same money just halved and the deductions are still a big issue.

Council staff are paid fortnightly or 4 weekly, many small traders still pay weekly, its only corporate businesses that pay monthly. correct me if I'm wrong.

Another thing thats written into UC is that you cannot go on holiday abroad as you cannot meet your claimant commitment.   I need to find the rules again but if your not in the UK they reserve the right not to pay you.
 >crying<

Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: JLR2 on 14 Oct 2018 05:38PM
''Another thing thats written into UC is that you cannot go on holiday abroad....''

First I heard of this Monic, it is a scenario that sounds pretty much to me that in future UC claimants will become in effect inmates of the largest open prison in the world with the only release/escape being in a well paying job, at least one that paid enough for someone to afford a holiday abroad.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: lankou on 14 Oct 2018 05:51PM
''Another thing thats written into UC is that you cannot go on holiday abroad....''

First I heard of this Monic, it is a scenario that sounds pretty much to me that in future UC claimants will become in effect inmates of the largest open prison in the world with the only release/escape being in a well paying job, at least one that paid enough for someone to afford a holiday abroad.

To nip this in the bud:-

More at link:-

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/298762/response/727736/attach/2/FOI%204569%20reply.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Under Universal Credit a claimant can go abroad for a period of a month for any reason, a
longer period of up to six months temporary absence abroad is also allowable for reasons of
medical treatment. However, if a claimant chooses to go on holiday in Great Britain or abroad
they must continue to carry out the work-related requirements as set out on their Claimant
Commitment.
No allowances are made within the conditionality regime for claimants going on holiday. For
example claimants within the All Work-Related Requirements Group with no restrictions on
their availability will still be expected to be immediately available to attend a job interview or
take up an offer of employment, even if this means cutting short a holiday. They are also
required to attend their normal appointments and failure to do so will incur a sanction.

Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 14 Oct 2018 08:09PM
Thanks for putting up the link, the relevant bits are “they must continue to carry out your work related requirements “ now for most of the members here you hopefully won’t have work related requirements but the single dad who works part time and works 16 hours, his claimant commitment will probably say he has to increase his hours and so has to keep job searching. 

I understand that this forum users might not have these concerns but UC is meant to replace both working tax credits and child tax credits so these rules will affect millions of people and it’s all hidden behind the headline “ less complicated as one payment “ headline.

I just recall the single dad who refused to take a night shift job and was sanctioned, we won the appeal but it took 9 months for the appeal tribunal to be heard.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Frances on 14 Oct 2018 08:15PM
Now I am totally confused makes me glad I am an OAP.
At least my pension is Ok !
I still seem to be getting DLA but not the highest. Which is crazy but like Ryan I was so ill at time I just couldn't fight it
But where Ryan stands I don't Know he has just been given PIP for 6 years. But not the full amount. £ 468 monthly I think. He got high on either mobility or care can't remember which.
He gets ESA support group,after a lot of messing about. He gets £382.every 2 weeks.
He tells me I had put the wrong amount so have adjusted it.
Hope it OK now >lol<
 How they expected him to work when he can be fitting for hours at a time most days. It is crazy,  At least we can manage on it ,
 Paying for care privately means its only £10 an hour so we have 3 hours a week.
The council charged Ry £25, a week for 2 hours, Mine was £70. fo 4 hours.
Half the time they never turned up and still the money was taken from our account, This way She gets paid monthly a total of £120. Much better .
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 14 Oct 2018 08:19PM
ESA support group claimants have NO work related requirements and the claimant commitment will be very basic and you won’t have to look for work
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: JLR2 on 14 Oct 2018 08:33PM
''Under Universal Credit a claimant can go abroad for a period of a month for any reason, a
longer period of up to six months temporary absence abroad is also allowable for reasons of
medical treatment''

This looks pretty much as things stand under ESA support group benefits Lankou, thanks for posting the info you did. I do as best I can to avoid falling foul of the Habitual residency test hence my allowing the 12min weeks between visits to Germany.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: lankou on 15 Oct 2018 08:25AM
''Under Universal Credit a claimant can go abroad for a period of a month for any reason, a
longer period of up to six months temporary absence abroad is also allowable for reasons of
medical treatment''

This looks pretty much as things stand under ESA support group benefits Lankou, thanks for posting the info you did. I do as best I can to avoid falling foul of the Habitual residency test hence my allowing the 12min weeks between visits to Germany.


I suggest reading ALL of the link I posted.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Frances on 15 Oct 2018 11:12AM
ESA support group claimants have NO work related requirements and the claimant commitment will be very basic and you won’t have to look for work
Thanks a lot that puts my mind at rest !!
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: JLR2 on 15 Oct 2018 03:10PM
Read it Lankou and the attached pdf link. Having read it I understand that things so far as my visiting Germany are not changed and will not change should I be migrated to UC.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Frances on 15 Oct 2018 04:27PM
Ryan told me I got the amounts wrong so have adjusted original post,  >doh<
He says I am a Wally !!!
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: lankou on 15 Oct 2018 04:53PM
Read it Lankou and the attached pdf link. Having read it I understand that things so far as my visiting Germany are not changed and will not change should I be migrated to UC.

But they are changed for as lot of claimants who will be effectively trapped in Britain whilst they remain on UC.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 15 Oct 2018 08:02PM
This is the text of the link lankou provided and it is very helpful in my view - you might feel scared by it but I put the whole link there so that you can see why YOU MUST read your CLAIMANT Commitment IF YOU end up on UC

Thank you for your Freedom of Information request of 23 October 2015. You asked:
I wish to ask what approach the DWP will take as and when a claimant on Universal Credit requests to take any kind of holiday.
 There are provisions in the existing Jobseeker's Allowance Regulations in which a person may be treated as actively seeking employment but there appears to be no such provision in the Universal Credit Regulations.
 How does DWP propose to deal with exactly the same issue under UC? What variations will be allowed in conditionality, under what circumstances and for how long?
 If someone is working but still subject to work conditionality, will the leave provision in their contract of employment be taken as a basis for allowing time off? Under JSA rules, a claimant can go away within the UK for up to two weeks but cannot usually leave the UK or their claim will be closed. The claimant still needs to comply with the rules of JSA and can be asked to look for work whilst they are away. 
 
Under Universal Credit a claimant can go abroad for a period of a month for any reason, a longer period of up to six months temporary absence abroad is also allowable for reasons of medical treatment. However, if a claimant chooses to go on holiday in Great Britain or abroad they must continue to carry out the work-related requirements as set out on their Claimant Commitment.
 
No allowances are made within the conditionality regime for claimants going on holiday.  For example claimants within the All Work-Related Requirements Group with no restrictions on their availability will still be expected to be immediately available to attend a job interview or take up an offer of employment, even if this means cutting short a holiday. They are also required to attend their normal appointments and failure to do so will incur a sanction.   
 
Being on holiday would not be considered by a DWP Decision Maker as good reason for not carrying out any work search or availability requirements.

 
Regulation 11 of the Universal Credit regulations 2013 sets out that a person on Universal Credit is able to leave the UK for a period not exceeding a month (or not expected to exceed a DWP Central Freedom of Information Team
e-mail: freedom-of-information-request@dwp.gsi.gov.uk Our Ref: VTR4569 DATE: 3 November 2015
month). This can be extended in certain exceptional circumstances. However, this provision does not exempt a claimant from work related requirements as set out on the Claimant Commitment  Here is a link to the regulation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/11 
If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number above.   
Yours sincerely, 
 
 
DWP Strategy FoI Team
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 15 Oct 2018 08:18PM
Thank you for all the information so far  >star<

Read bits like

Quote
Under JSA rules, a claimant can go away within the UK for up to two weeks but cannot usually leave the UK or their claim will be closed.

Makes me think the rules have not really changed so much as the intent behind them. Back in the 1980s when claims and signing on were largely paper-based I knew if a benefits officer wanted to make life difficult for me they could. However I dont think there were the same incentives to dot every i and cross every T
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 15 Oct 2018 08:36PM
Hi
the difference under JSA was that you were rarely contacted at 10.00 and told you must attend an interview at 1.30 in the next city.  Nor were you expected to jobsearch for 35 hours in a week.     Many people on JSA would sign on, fly out for 10 days and be back in time for the next sign on,  under UC you have to log in daily and be available for immediate interview.   

Problem with this is UC covers people who were getting working tax credits and not just the people who get job seekers, Conditionality is the biggest concern because you have to accept a claimant commitment to have your claim accepted and very few people read these.

I routinely point out to people who rely on public transport that they cannot accept a claimant commitment that says they will accept any job any hours as that means they could be sanctioned for not taking a job with a 2am start at the airport - there is no public transport at 1.30am so you'll have to get a taxi and that's too expensive on a minimum wage job.


I will try and find an easily posted link on the different types of conditionality.

Have you seen Frank Field tonight on the news asking McVey whats her answer to the people taking jobs in the red light district as the jobs from the work coaches are not suitable?
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: JLR2 on 15 Oct 2018 09:25PM
''Have you seen Frank Field tonight on the news asking McVey whats her answer to the people taking jobs in the red light district as the jobs from the work coaches are not suitable?''

Just caught it on the BBC's web pages. McVey totally ignored the point Field was raising going on to talk about 'work coaches' giving advice, I wonder what the advice is going to be?  Where the best places are to sell sex or the best places to buy condoms?  McVey really is not the full shilling. Does she honestly think any of these women want to admit to anyone what they feel forced to do?  None of these women look to prostitution as some sort of career move.

Now I don't know if I'm just thick but so far as I can make out if and when I am eventually migrated to UC I would be being migrated from the support group which does not require me to seek employment, has this or is this being changed to read that on moving to UC I will be required to be available for employment?
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 16 Oct 2018 06:01AM
If you are migrated to support group you would have no conditionality that related to jobsearching. You would still have a claimant commitment and will be likely to have new WCA as the can trigger these at any time.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: JLR2 on 16 Oct 2018 07:09AM
If you are migrated to support group you would have no conditionality that related to jobsearching. You would still have a claimant commitment and will be likely to have new WCA as the can trigger these at any time.

Thanks Monic, that is how things are for me now under ESA. Currently I complete and return the BF5 form (for temporary absence abroad) to the DWP a few weeks before I am due to leave the country. There has been occasions where I've phoned the DWP to request this form that I've been told by the person I've been talking to that they have made a note on my file and I will not be called for a WCA whilst I'm away.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Fiz on 17 Oct 2018 10:00AM
This is really distressing reading but very useful none the less.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Fiz on 17 Oct 2018 10:25AM
Fiz - Landlords can apply for direct payments when they have vulnerable tenants, you can request it as well but normally only after the first payment is made to you.  Discretionary housing payments are also available to people on universal credit the same as folk on housing benefit and you should reapply - I know they refused you in the past but you need a spare room for a carer.


Oh Monic thank you so much I have an application in for DHP at the moment as my under occupancy reduction has increased to 25% as dd has finished Uni and this was her official residence as she sofa surfed near wherever her current placements were. When I was just paying the rent for my 6x6ft therapy room where I have mathmos projector etc to try and calm myself I was managing to pay that but always had less than £2 every fortnight when the next fortnightly ESA arrived so I'm terrified of getting into debt or not eating, I had one pay the increased 25% payment for 10 days 10 days ago and I lost 8.25 lbs this last week, I am eating but cheap rubbish and less. I never even thought to ask for a room for a carer before you said this. I am in crisis and feeling very unsafe and have been thinking of going to my sisters as I've been unable to access support here so I think stating I need space for a carer is not in any way an exaggeration. I will email the head of benefits and state that and see if that helps with my DHP application. I said on my claim for that I've been able to afford the one bedroom reduction, just, but that I won't manage a 25% reduction.

The woman who came from the council to complete my application said that the head of benefits is turning down anyone who isn't trying to down size and I have spent so much money getting this house adapted to meet my physical and mental health needs and although it's officially 3 bedrooms it's minute. And there's no way mentally I could cope with moving after everything here. Plus the ISVA is going to request alarms and special locks are fitted here.

I will email right now, that would make such a difference.

Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 17 Oct 2018 10:32PM
Fiz

If the council can provide you with an adapted flat in a safe space then they would have good reason to refuse you a DHP,  one way to manage this action by the council would be to agree to apply for a move and then be very strict in the criteria - list a specific area, with a 2 bed house on the level with secure entry, you need 2 bedrooms as you need an overnight carer.

Im not saying you would move but its very unlikely the council will have suitable accommodation available.
 >hugs<
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Fiz on 18 Oct 2018 04:26PM
That is true.

I've been in touch with the council and I have to say how often a carer stays overnight to get the disregard but it seems possible. I'm in a 2 and 8 having paid the increased amount for 10 days, so a week at 25% then working out 3 days of 25% and the rest of the week at the lower rate now need to work out backwards how much I've overpaid if my spare room is regarded as a room for a carer. Because I'm unwell at the moment the calculation is totally beyond me so I've just reduced my fortnightly rent in advance down to £10 online banking and hope I can sort myself out before I get into arrears.

It would be really useful I local authorities told us what we needed to pay as the under occupancy reduction in HB instead of telling us a percentage and if the percentage changes mid week like it did with dd then the calculation was not easy. I might have got it wrong and I can't attempt it now backwards.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 18 Oct 2018 07:51PM
Local authorities have discretion on how they calculate the awards of DHP.  Its not a set system,  my council covers all under occ charges for council tenants on HB, then they calculate the rest depending on each persons circumstances. 

With that calculation its no wonder your confused.
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 19 Oct 2018 10:28AM
Fiz,

If you dont get the Discretionary Housing Payment would you consider getting a lodger to share the housing costs - maybe a student so they were not there all the time?

If Mr Sunshine were to lose his job our fall back position is renting out the spare room?

Monic,

Are you able to look up and post the rules on what happens if you rent a room when you are on Income Based Benefits?
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Fiz on 19 Oct 2018 03:15PM
The trouble is I never have the hot water on unless dd is here because she needs baths to soak in her eczema stuff whereas I use the electric shower and then rarely more than once a week due to lack of motivation.  My house looks like I'm depressed and only the lounge and spare bedroom is clean. I live in chaos. Many winters I've not turned the heating on at all to save money, this year I've set it to timed but the thermostat is set at 10°. If I were to have a lodger I'd need to somehow clean the house, the shower screen is broken so I'd need to pay someone to fix that, I'd need to heat the house to a good standard and have hot water plus I'm usually crying by 4pm at the latest and my evenings are awful distress wise and I try to medicate myself to sleep as soon as possible. Even if I had a female lodger I'd not to be to say she couldn't have a male visitor and it's really tricky having males in my safe place so for those reasons plus others a lodger isn't viable. Also I do have people stay in the spare room, dd and friends so I'd miss the ability to be able to. I'll just have to make do. It does look likely that I'll be allowed the bedroom disregard for the spare room and so far I've managed to keep up with the payments for my therapy room. I wouldn't want to share a house with me!
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Monic1511 on 23 Oct 2018 10:08PM
Hi Fiz

I haven't posted the rules re income from a lodger as I doubted you would accept a lodger,
my basic understanding is that the authorities ignore the first £5 and then treat the rest as income
I will need to clarify that but not sure they would look at it any other way.
 
Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Fiz on 24 Oct 2018 08:46AM
You're absolutely right monic, I take diazepam if a female visitor enters my safe space and to have stranger move in would cause me massive anxiety and I'd have to refuse them visitors which isn't reasonable either. And as you say means tested income would drop by anything they gave me, bar £5 ad I wouldn't financially manage on the reduced income.

Title: Re: Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 24 Oct 2018 09:54AM
Fiz,

I now realise I was thinking to laterally when I asked about a lodger so thank you for explaining  >hugs<

Thinking about it now I used to get wound up when trades people were coming to do work on the house. There would be a general worry about men and also about a stranger judging me and my disability. Your are right about the heating and how the house is to live in, you have so little heating is worrying but I get that finances wont stretch.