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Forum => Talk => Topic started by: Sunshine on 28 Jan 2020 04:07PM

Title: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 28 Jan 2020 04:07PM
I have been wanted to start this thread for a few days but I am worried about causing people to panic, then I remembered panic can be a normal human response so maybe see this thread as a safe space to panic

I am a child of the 1970s and have vivid memories of the plague drama that was show on BBC TV - Survivors. I don't remember there being a single disabled person in it. Anyway that along with the lists my sister used to make in case of nuclear war, plague or The Day of the Triffids means my response to the fear of societal bread down is to plan and act on those plans. One thing that was not available in the 1970s was online shopping so I have made a extra supermarket order which included bottled water and batteries. It seems like a good idea apart from the plastic in the bottles being bad for the environment.

Do you think the Corona Vrus is going to reach our shores and what do you have to say about it?
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Strontium Green on 28 Jan 2020 04:15PM
I was wondering about the same thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jan/27/what-is-coronavirus-symptoms-sars-china-wuhan (https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jan/27/what-is-coronavirus-symptoms-sars-china-wuhan)
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: lankou on 28 Jan 2020 04:49PM


Do you think the Corona Vrus is going to reach our shores and what do you have to say about it?

Given the incubation period is up to 14 days, (possibly more.) I suspect it is already here.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 28 Jan 2020 05:01PM
Quote
Given the incubation period is up to 14 days, (possibly more.) I suspect it is already here.

Me too, so I have been thinking no more online shopping soon and just pick up things like bread and mil locally.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 29 Jan 2020 09:26PM
'Survivors' was great, parents and I watched much of it on DVD about 12 years ago.  Have to say I'm not overly concerned at the moment about the Corona Virus, the authorities seem to have it in hand so to speak...   
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 30 Jan 2020 11:51AM
I have the Survivor series on DVD too but have not watched it in a while. I do wonder if I am the only one here who his the theme tune for the tv program The Good Life and thinks of the Survivors with some apprehension. Survivors was on after The Good Life and it was back when there were only three tv channels available.

I am less concerned about the Corona Virus causing my death directly than I am about the affects of a lot of key workers being ill.

Maybe I should have made the title for this thread more general and included things like Global Warning or maybe I am i n the wrong queue  >bighugs<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 01 Feb 2020 07:24PM
Im not really bothered about Corona Virus after all I don't know that I'll meet too many folk from China in the West of Scotland, the ones more bothered will be the highland tour operators.
I get more het up when one of the mums I work with comes in feeling hellish and says junior is off school with vomiting and diarrhoea that they might have  >yikes<  Im like so why are you in when we have to share a desk and your probably contagious?  Oh but I have work that needs to be done, so work from home and keep your germs to yourself.

or am I being selfish?
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: ally on 02 Feb 2020 08:41AM
In in Dubai visiting family at moment.  Dubai has always been a bit of a snowflake country.  Thereís four cases of the virus here, but, theyíre in hospital.  The reports says, theyíll be released in about 14 days or so.  Since then, thereís been panic buying of masks.  We went to the mall a few days ago.  Many people were wearing masks there, also at the local small shop.  Weíre keeping away from malls right now.  I find it scary, I canít lip read anyone wearing a mask.  Also, due to the above  Iím wondering, if we should buy them too. Or, is something going on, we donít know about?  Iím going to use the masks my DIL has for the airport, when we fly home.  Apparently, Koreans use them to visit patients in hospitals.  Itís not good, but, the virus has pushed the Brexit, Johnson, and, Harry and Meghan into the background as far as the news is concerned.  I hate things happening thatís totally out of your control.

Monic, youíre not being selfish.  When I worked in the Dwp, we were only allowed two weeks sick, regardless.  After that, you received an oral warning.  Therefore, employees came into work in some bad states.  Iíve seen people fainting, or, collapsing, due to the sickness rules.  Of course, due to the air conditioning, and, sauna like working conditions, germs spread like wild fire.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 02 Feb 2020 01:00PM
Quote
or am I being selfish?

No way are you being selfish. I am shocked that the Mum you work with did not prefer to work from home after all who was looking after junior  >yikes< When she said I have work that needs to be done was she talking about not wanting to let clients down or having a work load she need to complete because a manager expected it?

It is strange how diseases like the Norovirus have become accepted as going to happen every winter.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 02 Feb 2020 01:22PM
Ally,

I had not thought about people not being able to lip read what people are saying when they are wearing masks. There are stories in the news over here in the UK about people panic buying masks and that masks are now out of stock in many shops. 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/30/panic-buying-hits-britain-shops-sell-face-masks-hand-wash-12153498/ (https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/30/panic-buying-hits-britain-shops-sell-face-masks-hand-wash-12153498/)

From what I understand masks are not even that good and stopping the spread of the Corona Virus because ones like the N95 mask stop being effective protection once moisture from breathing is trapped in the mask. Mask do help prevent people who are already sick spreading contamination when they cough or sneeze.

I agree with you about the headlines the virus story is creating pushing other stories like what Boris Johnson and the Government into the background. 
In some call centres in the UK sickness rules are even worse than they were when you worked for the DWP - three occasions and a maximum of ten days. You are right some people come to work in bad states. I wish we had a government that cared about such things and that we had much stronger labour laws to protect workers.

Air conditioning and saunas  >yikes< One small advantage some sick and disabled people is that they can stay at home and reduce risk of infection.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 03 Feb 2020 06:57PM
okay, I'm aware this isn't going to sound right but I'd like to assure you I have nothing against the Chinese at all.

Why do these things always come from China?   You hear of a new virus or whatever and nine times out of ten (if not ten), it originates in China.  I guess there must be a valid scientific reason but I don't know it.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 03 Feb 2020 08:36PM
Hi Steve

this is a pure guess but regulation in China and probably India is very lax so the theory is that this is cross contamination that occurred at a food market, an ill animal passed on an infection to a person, that could be that the animal was bleeding and the person ingested the blood, either by a cut or consuming spoiled meat.  The person then became ill but stayed working at the market and passed the infection onto other people. 

when you look at the way these markets are run its fairly easy to cross contaminate.  I think its the volume of people as well that influences this
that's my tuppence worth
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 04 Feb 2020 01:35PM
Steve,


Quote
Why do these things always come from China?
Good question  >thumbsup<


I agree with what Monic said about live animals being sold at markets, cross infection and the volume of people. I wonder if the movement of people from the countryside to mega cities also plays a part. In smaller populations that have little movement outside a specific area people get a sort of herd resistance which can mean they fight off certain local infections but not necessarily something newly arrived. It is like when the Europeans went to the New World and so many Indigenous people died of things like smallpox.

I read something about the way people in India and China and other Asian countries keep live stock at home and how that can further add to the biological soup of an area. The thing is though over in developed countries like the UK there would be more opportunity for contamination if we did not have an industrialised farming industry that means many people never see live animals before they become meat. 

The fact that the Corona Virus was identified before tens of thousands of people dies does mean China have things in place to monitor public health or maybe not. Hmm I am not sure .. does anyone know how the virus was initially identified?
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SashaQ on 05 Feb 2020 08:54PM
Legionnaire's Disease originated in the USA, as did Norovirus https://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A87917827 so these things spring up wherever they find good conditions...
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 07 Feb 2020 10:19AM
Good link Sasha  >thumbsup<

Other diseases come to mind like Foot and Mouth (particularly the UK outbreak), plague in the west coast states of America, and also measles (including the antivaxxer aspect). 

I am trying to better understand why viruses originating in China or Asia in general seem to get more press coverage all I have so far is the fact they are more people so there is more potential for it to spread quickly, causing deaths and possibly more importantly affecting countries infrastructure and ability to function. This means some viruses coming out of places like China present a greater perceive threat especially when they are new.

In my opinion newspapers like the Daily Mail have allowed all sorts of discriminatory comments to remain published on their website which can't have helped the situation over here. There was an item on BBC2's Victoria Derbyshire show about people who look Chinese being victimised and bullied eg people suggesting those people are going to infect others with the Corona Virus. 

Does anyone know if Asia and especially China has a higher rate of viruses that evolve from those that exist in in animal populations eg bats, pigs and birds?
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 09 Mar 2020 05:09PM
I don't know about that, but I do know that one can hardly turn on the news right now without in-depth discussion on the wretched virus...Already, selfish and stupid people are panic-buying  >steam<  stripping supermarket shelves of stuff like toilet rolls and long-life milk, what's the matter with them?
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: huhn on 09 Mar 2020 08:25PM
my point is, is just a flu without vaccines, that why it is dangerous. but one point i have to say, just lost a young friend to the normal flu, so even young fit people can be also hit. this year i got the flu, sorry to say i am  the only one without the shot in the family, i had 3 days in bed without moving, not even loo was possible, so in the end i stayed 10 days in bed , i was so sick, nothing i was able to do. so i think with the normal care we have to live and hope the a vaccine comes out or that it is a one off  like some other flu  types in the summer. i do not panic. i hope we are not hit. enjoy the life it is to short to be miserable  . good night to every one.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 10 Mar 2020 11:28PM
I'd like to address the issue about how much people buy.

What I want to mention is how different people buy different amounts of stuff normally.  For many years, I took my parents to the supermarket once a fortnight by car.  They bought odd bits and bobs in between, but almost all their groceries, toiletries etc. were bought that way.

Sometimes I'd go away with the army.  If it was for more than a couple of weeks, they'd go to the supermarket by themselves in a taxi, but if it was just a couple of weeks, they'd be pretty much ok until I got home except maybe picking up the odd loaf of bread and a bottle of milk on the way home from work.

A little while back, I 'stockpiled' for Brexit.  I told a friend about it the other day and we laughed.  You see, I do what I think of as a 'big' supermarket shop at erratic intervals and do most of my grocery shopping a bit at a time 2-4 times a week.

My 'stockpiled' food is in crates in my kitchen.  It seems like a lot.  But as I pointed out to my friend, if I'd put it away in the cupboards where my mother kept her food, it would have fitted in comfortably.

The point I'm making in my usual longwinded way is that there are lots of people who have a bit of spare food and toiletries etc. in the house anyway, and there are lots of people that don't. 

So if someone who normally only buys a bit here, a bit there, on what in manufacturing is called ordering/buying on a 'just in time' basis, if they were to go out and buy a month's supply of something, they'd only have as much as the person that shops fortnightly and has a couple of weeks' spare in the house.

 
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 10 Mar 2020 11:32PM
As for looroll, there's something that seems to be being missed by a lot of people I talk with, which is what you use it for. What am I on about?  Well, it's sold for wiping your bum, but people also use it for wiping noses.  Yes, if the government tells us (as it keeps doing) to cough into a 'tissue' and immediately throw it away, for an awful lot of people that means coughing into some bogroll and throwing it away.

Indeed, for me it came as a surprise to realise that so few people use bogroll to blow their noses on or cough into.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: lankou on 11 Mar 2020 08:30AM
I have had difficulty getting hand sanitizer get. (Refund for non  delivery.) I have ordered from another supplier just now on 24 hour delivery.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 11 Mar 2020 05:58PM
Sunny, when I mentioned 'panic buyers', I didn't have in mind those people who might buy in bulk as part of a normal, more infrequent shop - that's fair enough, not everyone goes to the supermarket weekly for varying reasons!

Must say, I prefer a nice soft balm-infused tissue to blow my nose into rather than loo roll, but each to their own  ;-)

I have had difficulty getting hand sanitizer get. (Refund for non  delivery.) I have ordered from another supplier just now on 24 hour delivery.

That doesn't surprise me - Dad had trouble just getting a bar of normal soap this morning (and the toilet roll aisle was completely empty.  As the checkout operator commented when I was there yesterday, to the best of his knowledge the coronavirus doesn't cause diarrhoea..)
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: huhn on 11 Mar 2020 06:27PM
from friday all schools and  universities are closed in cyprus for 1 week
it is already scary here without tourists, no business and it is totenstill ( death quiet) , how we say in german. 
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 12 Mar 2020 08:12PM
I don't mind saying this is scaring me big time now, especially with all my health problems, age on top of that and then my mum who's in her 70s.  very worrying indeed.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: lankou on 12 Mar 2020 08:45PM
I don't mind saying this is scaring me big time now, especially with all my health problems, age on top of that and then my mum who's in her 70s.  very worrying indeed.

I have got to the sod it stage and my wife and I are going to Brittany next Sunday for two weeks.
(We are taking a PPE box with us, Personal Protection Equipment.)
 
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 12 Mar 2020 09:45PM
Its a flu epidemic and while I know people with a compromised immune system are scared we all need to remain calm and sensible.
I clean the church and am struggling to find hand soap, I need a minimum of 6 bottles of hand soap and cant find any in the supermarkets,  there will be visitors to the church this weekend and at least 200 folk will be through the doors so if I cant find hand soap there will be complaints.  Its getting to the stage Im going to ask the congregation to bring some soap so I have enough.

Steve - you rarely go out - is that right?  as for your mum as long as she isn't hanging around folk with the cold we can hope she is okay   >hugs<
Monic
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 12 Mar 2020 10:29PM
Belated response to Kizzy - my apologies if what I wrote seemed to put words in your mouth or misrepresent what you were saying.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 12 Mar 2020 10:36PM
I'm struggling with the ever more ridiculous handwashing instructions.  I was already struggling with the NHS official 'wash often' and 'wash frequently'.  How often is 'often'?  How frequently is 'frequently'?

They're now also using the term 'regularly' as are various media outlets.  I don't find that any better.

The ultimate now is the Guardian's Youtube channel with a short video in which their health correspondant says we should wash our hands 'all the time'.

Oh, did I mention I'm a compulsive and illogical handwasher who'd just managed to make some serious progress in handwashing less often?  My usual illustration of the illogicality of it is that my kitchen door knob is 'dirty' and my front door latch is 'clean'.  There isn't actually any logic to it.  Each item or place mentally classified one way or the other originally had a logic, it just becomes daft.

Now I'm bombarded with all these messages, I'm struggling.  My hands are chapped, cracked and bleeding.

This isn't "eek coronavirus" handwashing, it's compulsive handwashing triggered by all these OTT instructions.

Oh well, it takes my mind off other stuff and at least I can laugh at how dotty I am.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: wayne333 on 13 Mar 2020 05:01AM
 I'm 60 and one of my illnesses is Type 2 Diabetes,which weakens the Immune System. So,
 I'm seen as being 'At Risk', (of Dying), if I get the Coronavirus. My Local GP's Surgery, sent
 me a Text, yesterday. It warned me that I'm at risk, and advised me to keep away from other
 people, stay indoors, and if I live with anyone, I'm to stay at least 6 Feet away from them!
 They also say that I must wash my hands - at least 5 times a Day - for at least 20 Seconds,
 each time.
 
 In the meantime, Boris Johnson is advising Families, to allconfine themselves, to their
 Homes, if even just one of the Family, so much as has a cough!

 I'm supposed to be having Council Work Men, in my Flat, next Wednesday and Thursday, to put a
 Sprinkler System in. It was arranged 2 Weeks ago. However, as Boris is advising Workers, to stay
 at Home, I no longer know, if any such Appointments will go ahead. Everything seems to be falling
 apart, for all of - everywhere...

 Will we end up being unable to go Shopping? They have closed all, except the Chemists and Food Stores,
 in Italy and Denmark. Will it happen here? What about if a person dares to blow their nose, or sneeze, or
cough, in a Shop? Will the Shop  impose an instant 'Ban', on that person? If a person goes to see their GP,
with a Cold, or Chest Infection, will the GP refuse to let them leave, and 'phone for an Ambulance, so that
person can be forced into Hospital, for Weeks - whether they like it or not? All because there is such a huge
fear, of people, who may, (or may not), have the Coronavirus?
   
 
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: lankou on 13 Mar 2020 03:37PM
You can check the number of cases of COVID 19 in your area here:-

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 13 Mar 2020 06:10PM
Its a flu epidemic and while I know people with a compromised immune system are scared we all need to remain calm and sensible.
I clean the church and am struggling to find hand soap, I need a minimum of 6 bottles of hand soap and cant find any in the supermarkets,  there will be visitors to the church this weekend and at least 200 folk will be through the doors so if I cant find hand soap there will be complaints.  Its getting to the stage Im going to ask the congregation to bring some soap so I have enough.

Steve - you rarely go out - is that right?  as for your mum as long as she isn't hanging around folk with the cold we can hope she is okay  >hugs<
Monic

Yeah I only go out when I really have to, my mum does go out every morning to the shops and I cannot convince her to go out less frequently although I have a minor victory as she was going to a show this weekend and she's now decided to stay home.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 13 Mar 2020 08:58PM
Hi Steve
the going out daily can be a routine to get the papers and some folk go stir crazy if they have to stay indoors too long.
My work now insists we take laptop, phone, case work home very night even when we have to be back the next day - I find this infuriating as my bag now weighs about 20 pounds and is like carting a young child about.  if I moan they'll only offer me a trolly

Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 13 Mar 2020 10:05PM
Re. Wayne's doctor's advice "They also say that I must wash my hands - at least 5 times a Day - for at least 20 Seconds,
 each time."

A giggle, maybe?  How often I normally wash my hands.  Scroll on by if this is boring for you (no offence taken).

Say I have an 'ordinary' day for me.  Let's say mostly at home, also go to an exercise class.  Hmmm, how often do I wash my hands...

Every time I go to the loo, and I get up at least once a night, so that'll be about 8 times. 
Loo once outside the house - wash before and after, running total 10
Before each meal or snack (and boy do I snack), let's say at least 15 times, running total 25.
Say five bits of housework, running total 30
Wash as part of ordinary bedtime and getting up wash/shower, add 2, running total 32
Wash when getting in house, running total 33
Wash after locking up doors at bedtime, running total 34


Alcohol gel - sanitising
Catch bus each way to class - add 2, running total 2
Before and after class - add 2, running total 4
Pop into shop or use ATM, say 2 activities before and after, add 4, running total 8
Shake hands with neighbour/acquaintance, add 1, running total 9
Touch traffic crossing signal button, add 2, running total 11

So that's a minimum of 55 washings or sanitisings per day, and it goes haywire if I go on a housework or house maintenance binge.

It wouldn't be odd if it hit 100 times in a day.

In all seriousness, I knew it had got out of hand, but I'd still thought 'normal' would be at least 20-30 times a day.

However, the contrast between my concept of normal and that advice shows I'm right (looks smug) about my views about how crazy government advice to wash 'often', 'frequently' and 'regularly' is.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 14 Mar 2020 03:08PM
>bighugs< infection free cyber hugs.

There was a item on the news earlier talking about why people started buying so much toilet paper that basically said that people buying more escalated as the shelves became more empty- a sort of panic buy. I buy toilet rolls when they are on offer so already and enough for a good while. What Wayne said about being made to do things or not being allowed to do things is interesting because I doubt there is enough resources to force able quarantine people, and also I think the reaction of people in shops ect will be determined by what becomes acceptable locally. I live in a very friendly town in the Midlands where people say hello to one another and chat in the street and while that might happen a bit less I dont think it will stop.

I am hand washing more but not to excess and I can see how it would create a struggle for people with OCD. I guess information on coping with that can be found online, my none profession thoughts were firstly try to be the best parent for yourself that you can be eg if you were looking after a child washing their hands overly much what would you do. Secondly the supply of liquid soap is limited so best to slow down a bit if you are using a lot.

Lankou,

I have some hand sanitizer it smells of bubble gum I could send you some if you like. I know it would mean you letting me have your address which is not something I would usually advocate but we are not living in our usual circumstances. I know what you mean about the sod it stage. Mr Sunshine had to go to Wales again and this time I put the dogs in kennels and to my surprise and relief I did not end up overly checking the house was safely locked up, nor did I jump at every noise through the night.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: wayne333 on 14 Mar 2020 08:06PM
From what I've read, from Monday, UK Police will be allowed to Arrest anyone who they 'suspect' may have the Virus,
if they see them in the Street, or in other places, (Shops? Cinemas? Theatres? Pubs? Clubs? Bingo?).

Also, there is a 'Panic Buying' of Toilet Rolls, that is causing Stores to run out. So, now a Man in Harringay, has been
'Mugged' for one of the Toilet Rolls, that he'd just bought in a Savers Shop!

Someone made a Joke about the Toilet Roll obsession. He said that we can't be far off a time, when Quiz Show Hosts
are saying things like; 'Congratulations Jenny! You've Won the Pack of Toilet Rolls! Bad Luck Danny! You've Won the
2 Week Holiday to Italy!'...


Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 15 Mar 2020 05:22PM
Belated response to Kizzy - my apologies if what I wrote seemed to put words in your mouth or misrepresent what you were saying.

No apologies required, Sunny, you were just adding an extra valid point, is all!

Quote
Someone made a Joke about the Toilet Roll obsession. He said that we can't be far off a time, when Quiz Show Hosts
are saying things like; 'Congratulations Jenny! You've Won the Pack of Toilet Rolls! Bad Luck Danny! You've Won the
2 Week Holiday to Italy!'..

 >lol< I like it...Seems we are all going to need our sense of humour in the coming weeks.  I sure don't know about this forthcoming recommendation for elderly people (and those with respiratory conditions) to stay at home for goodness knows how long - there are going to be a lot of practical problems to overcome, not to mention what Monic said about people going stir-crazy if confined indoors  >erm<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: lankou on 16 Mar 2020 02:58PM
After the first two lots of hand sanitisers I ordered got lost/stolen before delivery. (I was refunded.) The third has just arrived.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 16 Mar 2020 06:51PM
Mugged for toilet rolls?

You know we are living in 2020 and supposed to be so advanced when really we are not, the general public are mostly uneducated selfish scumbags who only care about "me me me", the Thatcher legacy.

I cannot believe society is on the edge of breaking down after one problem, sure it's a huge one but we should be helping each other not behaving like cavemen. 

Perhaps humans are the true infestation on our beautiful planet, an asteroid should do a dinosaur on us and wipe us out, it's what we deserve.  around 200,000 years of evolution and we still behave like this.  I'm disgusting.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 17 Mar 2020 04:54PM
I don't think humanity is infested with so many 'bad apples' that we all need to be exterminated, Steve!  Most people are sensible and have regard to their fellow human beings, it's just that a situation like this can bring out the worst in those who already happen to be selfish and inconsiderate...Doing weekly shop today (which I dread now) I had to grin wryly at the toilet roll aisle.  Completely and utterly cleared.  And the store was packed - could hardly wait to get home.  How many more weeks have we of this??
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 17 Mar 2020 06:56PM
I don't think humanity is infested with so many 'bad apples' that we all need to be exterminated, Steve!  Most people are sensible and have regard to their fellow human beings, it's just that a situation like this can bring out the worst in those who already happen to be selfish and inconsiderate...Doing weekly shop today (which I dread now) I had to grin wryly at the toilet roll aisle.  Completely and utterly cleared.  And the store was packed - could hardly wait to get home.  How many more weeks have we of this??

It's going to last a long time isn't it.   and well, I visit my mum weekly but now I'm not sure I should go or not. I do want to see her and I value our time together but then if I was infected and passed it onto her I would be utterly devastated  ..but then if I stay home it's going to be months and it our age and with our problems I might never see her again.

it's really a tough one.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: auntieCtheM on 17 Mar 2020 10:45PM
If I were you Steve I would keep visiting her.
 
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: lankou on 18 Mar 2020 07:57AM


Lankou,

I have some hand sanitizer it smells of bubble gum I could send you some if you like. I know it would mean you letting me have your address which is not something I would usually advocate but we are not living in our usual circumstances. I know what you mean about the sod it stage. Mr Sunshine had to go to Wales again and this time I put the dogs in kennels and to my surprise and relief I did not end up overly checking the house was safely locked up, nor did I jump at every noise through the night.

My order of hand sanitiser was delivered on Monday.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 19 Mar 2020 08:52AM
Lankou >thumbsup<

Steve

I agree with Auntie.

Also does you Mum know much about apps like What's App Messenger, it's better than phone messaging because sending pictures is free. You don't have to join groups and can use it on a one to one individual basis.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: huhn on 19 Mar 2020 10:15AM
bad news, complete lock down, today short visit to my little one and then we see when we see each other again
my big girl is also not more moving around. she is missing her walks in the park.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 19 Mar 2020 01:13PM
Hugs, Huhn, and all others that need them.

You seem to make so much effort to make sure your girls are ok and now this.  It must be difficult.

As a general thing about what people are up against, I think there's a lot of nastiness out there at the moment about why anyone might be upset or behaving in a way that others think is unnecessary or lacking common sense or overreacting or whatever, and I can't help but think that a lot of the stuff I read is written by people who don't have practical problems to deal with. 

A little thing - hoarding.  Ok, so shelves are empty in some shops and that's a genuine problem.  At the same time, with messy government information here in the UK (and probably in a number of other parts of the world) is it any surprise if people try to make sure they're going to be ok?

Here in the UK, the government's been vaguely saying it'll be telling people over 70 and people with certain conditions to self-isolate for 14 weeks, but not saying when it'll start or exactly who it'll affect.  (Even now, government advice is inconsistent.) 

Then if people stock up on basics, others are horrified.  But the people expressing horror are, as I see it, mostly people who take it for granted they can order stuff online, keep in touch with people online.  I looked up some figures.  In the UK, in 2018 around half of all households with at least one person over 65 had no internet connection.  There will be more online now but I bet at least a quarter of over-65s are still in a household that's not online.  Obviously, there are also younger people without internet access as well, I just pick that example to make my point.

I come across people screaming about other people's lack of 'common sense'.  Hmmm, well that can get harder if you've got certain mental problems ranging from low IQ to psychosis, but even if you're mentally functioning 'normally', things seem different from different perspectives. 

There's also people's notion of 'hoarding'.  If you usually go shopping (or get your shopping delivered) about once a fortnight for the main stuff, and keep maybe a week's worth of most stuff in the house on top of that, then it may not compute that there are lots of people out there that usually buy a little bit here, a little bit there as they go along.  If all the people that only buy a little at a time that suddenly go out and buy three weeks' worth, the shelves are empty, but in many cases (not all) the people scorning them the most are those that could survive two or three weeks without a trip to the shops and maybe longer. 

I'm not saying there isn't also absurd stockpiling - there is - I'm just saying I believe a lot of this extra buying isn't massive stockpiling relative to the politicians and journalists being sniffy about it.

When Brexit stockpiling was discussed elsesite, someone pointed out that in some countries and communities it's normal to keep spares in case of emergency/crisis/disaster.  Someone linked to a German government document about what to keep in your house in case of emergency (not just what I'll call groceries but also things like spare batteries, safety items etc.) and someone else linked to information from the Church of the Latter Day Saints.  I 'stockpiled' then (including loopaper).

But as I said to a friend recently, although if you looked in my kitchen, you'd see a load of plastic crates with food in, if I took it out of the crates, rearranged what's in my cupboards (because I like to spread out my cooking utensils and cleaning materials to fill them) and put the stuff in the cupboards my late mother used for food, it would almost all disappear from sight.

So what for me was gradual 'stockpiling' I felt almost guilty about is not much more than my parents would have had anyway.  Ok, so I'd brexit-piled a lot of loopaper (because it's an imported item), but other stuff I've got less of.

Again, if you were to go into one of my rooms, you'd find what seems like a mountain of cleaning materials.  But if I were to put them away in the under-sink cupboards in the kitchen and laundry room and bathroom they'd pretty much 'disappear'. 

I am getting more and more wound up about lots of people out there, including politicians and journalists and people I meet online, who are horrid because they can't see things from someone else's perspective.

I have felt very heartwarmed, though, by an email from someone elsesite whom I often clash with (but not nastily on the part of either of us) thanking me for repeatedly asking people to consider others different from them.  The person then mentioned homeless people and spoke of stereotypes.  Another group that gets maligned.

Why have I typed all this?  Well obviously I wanted to get it out, but more particularly to do so in a place where we all know what it is not to be a bog-standard 'normal' 'typical' 'textbook' human being, and we all know other people that aren't.

Stay safe, my lovely, lovely Ouchers!  The kind people who simply by being there, not to mention all that you say, remind me it's ok not to meet random standards of 'normal' people.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 19 Mar 2020 07:45PM
Well said hugs to all x

Edit to add. My laptop is broken so I am using a tablet when downstairs hence lack of text. More in a bit.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 20 Mar 2020 10:20AM
Huhn,

>bighugs< >bighugs< >bighugs< 

Good Morning All,

I managed to get some time upstairs so I am now using my Desktop computer. Sunny made a lot of good points.

I had started feeling guilty that I bought extra items including a multipack of hand sanitizer back at the end of January. It was when the majority of people were going with the flow and they did  not expect any big issues to arise. I bought things online so I could avoid asking Mr Sunshine going to the shops, firstly because he was like 'WHY????' and secondly I did not want people to see the contents of our trolley and have a panic buy triggered in store because of that. At this point I could just use my credit card and buy more and more but the shift in the the behaviour of so many people means I will be trying to maintain what we have rather than expand on it. I don't want to leave people without the opportunity to buy something because I bought more. There is one exception to this and that is dried pet food for the cats and dogs which I have bought online. The reason being the cats and dogs can't live on pasta and oxtail soup.

When the crisis is over and the ordinary able bodied people who panic bought in store and grabbed online shopping delivery dates in the last week or so have time to reflect, I wonder if they will be able to understand how sick and disabled people often have to live day to day, week to week, month to month.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 21 Mar 2020 04:57PM
The selfish barstewards who are clearing the shelves, so no-one else can get what they need  >steam< , don't seem to be responding to any call to their better nature (if they even have one) so I almost cheered to the news that supermarkets were starting to ration key items.  In fact, my parents' neighbour kindly picked up some toilet rolls for them yesterday while he was doing his own shop - and the store manager was there in the aisles telling him he could only have that one pack...

Of course, some of the 'me-me-me' oiks won't like that.  OK, so call security and have them thrown out unceremoniously - with nothing.  Might make them think a bit if they have to do without.  Stupid, stupid >expletive deleted<.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 21 Mar 2020 06:03PM
Several of these idiots have been arrested for breach of the peace but itís their kids I feel sorry for,
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 21 Mar 2020 06:07PM
Talking to my mum several times today and we sadly decided it is not worth the risk for me to visit her tonight so right now I'm having a bit of a cry and wondering if I'll ever see my mum again.    >crying<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: auntieCtheM on 21 Mar 2020 08:58PM
Oh Steve, you cannot think like that.  My own mother is now in a care home.  They are on lock-down so I cannot get to see her.  I just have to accept that that is how it is and get on with it.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 21 Mar 2020 11:11PM
Hugs to all those that have family they wish they could visit and can't.  It must be so difficult.

I've got a silly problem.  I've already mentioned compulsive handwashing.  It's actually a problem that varies because it used to be compulsive house cleaning alternating between barely doing any.

Ditto hoarding.  Well I did my hoarding ages ago for Brexit but shopping is what I do as a key activity, a bit here, a bit there.  How to stop it?  Aargh!

Well today, I did some shopping for neighbours, which helped, but also I went into a few shops, looked round and bought some stuff from the full bits of the shelves.

E.g. window cleaning wipes and stain remover pads.  If I'm not getting exercise and I want to divert my urge to clean away from excessive pointless handwashing, spring cleaning is the answer, and no one seems to want that sort of cleaning material.

In a supermarket, I looked round - what do others not want?  Ok, loads of stuff like stock powder and some brands of sauces for pasta & rice, buy a few items.  First aid section?  Hmm.  It's the paracetamol they want, not the sticking plasters, so buy some to put on my cracked hands.

Having stockpiled previously, I'm actually worried now because of the way I've stored stuff.  It's not in cupboards, it's in see-through plastic crates so it's visible through my kitchen window when the light's on after dark because there's no curtain (or curtain rail). 

Still, it will see me through and I'll have some spares for neighbours. 

I shouldn't be guilt-tripping because of my stockpiled stuff, even though I shouldn't because I bought a bit at a time over a period of over a year up to last year.

I'm worried about a couple in their eighties a couple of doors down.  They didn't answer the door when I rang the bell even though I then stood well back from the door so they could see me from the window if they looked.  I think tomorrow I'll put a note through the door.

Stay safe, everyone, and have some more hugs.

 >bighugs<  >bighugs<  >bighugs<  >bighugs<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 22 Mar 2020 04:36PM
>bighugs<

Steve. Auntie and anyone else here with living parents,

Both my parents died a long time ago so being away from them no longer stresses me out. I do remember what it was like not being able to see them and talk to them in person to see how they are. For me being sick and disabled made it harder because I could not just jump in the car, go and see my parents and resolve allsorts of things I knew would help them. I think having a cry and also accepting this new normal for now is the best we can do. 

I was listening to the radio earlier, there was an item about how food is being transported to the supermarkets and then it was reporting on how a bakery school was setting up a system by which bread would be distributed to the needy. I burst into tears, thinking so what am I going to do in the Great Corona Virus Crisis of 2020? Maybe I just needed to cry some of the stress and overloaded empathy levels out of me for a while. 

I do believe that injustice and the unfairness of the world we live in has mad some of us more sick and disabled than we would otherwise be. Maybe nature is teaching humanity a lesson it needs to learn.

>bighugs<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 22 Mar 2020 08:47PM
Sunny, you certainly should not feel in the slightest bit guilty about your 'stockpiling' - I wish some people could show your sort of consideration for others!

Quote
I think having a cry and also accepting this new normal for now is the best we can do.

Crying isn't something that comes easily to me, but have to say for the first time since this began, I woke up from an afternoon nap feeling quite down about it all - worried about Dad, really, as he has to cope with being Mum's 24/7 carer as well as the coronavirus stuff (she has advanced dementia).  At least we are fortunate enough to have phones and the Internet, I keep reminding myself - and there's lots of humour to be had online, apparently.  Dad finds some good satire to keep him smiling - such as the 'I've done my Christmas shopping already' skit which shows a chap proudly displaying his festive-wrapped... bog rolls!

I guess we have to find time and inclination for laughter as well as tears, anger, fear and all the other emotions we are likely to feel in these coming days/weeks/months/whatever.  For now, I'm going to blow a big >raspberry< at that damn virus...
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 22 Mar 2020 10:00PM
Am I wrong to feel as I do in regards to my own Dad in that whilst he is over 85 now I find myself having little in the way of concern for him.

I'll explain, as a wee boy growing up I thought or saw my Dad in the mould of a James Bond like character, a big guy fit and healthy. Even today he still has a fair head of hair in that Bond quiff (if that's the right term) but as I myself have grown older and certainly since the passing of my Mother I have found myself realising the effort she put in to bring my brothers and sisters up. My Dad's weakness was, and still is, his love of gambling. My Mother was putting by any spare monies she could for things like Christmas and our birthdays often our birthday presents were funded through Embassy cigarette coupons. We had to do the hand me down routine and with me being the youngest son I got the shoes requiring the thicker cardboard insoles :-(  but we were sort of happy enough in our way. OK so I never owned or had a pair of decent trainers and had to do PE in my shoes or a pair of Wranglers/Levi's but there we go.

Since the passing of my Mother my Dad's more or less looked to my sister to look after him leaving the running of the house and any family related problems that came along such as my niece who's young daughter is unwell just now, paying bills and the like, to her. So long as he could either get to the bookies or get someone to put a bet on for him he was content. Even today as my sister looks after him in his isolation his main concern is getting someone to get a bet on for him. As it happens my sister has her own business to run, caring for her seriously disabled partner who thankfully lives in a flat in the same tenement building as my Dad, I can only hope all the work she has on her shoulders does not take its toll on her health. If things carry on as it appears they may do my sister is going to need professional help soon.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: ally on 23 Mar 2020 10:50AM
JLR2. Many men of your dads era grew up thinking that men had the right to keep so much of their wages behind, and, spend it on how they saw fit. Their wives were given a set amount of money to last until next pay day. These women had to eek out what they could afford to pay for food, clothing, rent, until the next pay day. To escape from the reality of their jobs, and, their lives in general, many men gambled, especially on horses.  In the hope of the big win that would change their lives for good.  Meanwhile, their families suffered, as the money was frittered away.

Men of this era usually saw their wives, as the little woman, who would cook, clean, look after the kids etc.  They didnít have much interaction with their children.  Therefore, due the culture of that time, many men,  were selfish. Your dad wonít change, itís too late for that now. All you can do is support your sister in some way.  She shouldnít risk her life, and, health to go outside to put bets on for your dad.  If she takes sick, her disabled partner, her business, and everything else. Will go up the creek due to your dads gambling obsession.

You need to look after yourself too.  Give advice to your sister by phone or email.  Donít visit. 

Take care of yourself, and, be safe.  That advice goes to everyone on this forum. Itís scary times right now.   It would be good if we could all pull together.  Voice our concerns, or, ask advice on this forum. I keep thinking Iím in some sort of Netflix horror film.  Unfortunately, I donít have brad Pitt, or, Daniel Craig to save me.  They wouldíve found a vaccine for the virus by now.  Boris, or, trump arenít the heros Iím looking for.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 23 Mar 2020 02:24PM
Ally, there is much in what you were saying there, I'll leave out contacting the family home in Glasgow for a while as I'm sure my sister will have enough on her hands just now.

I've plenty I can be doing at home just now, varnishing some shelves I put up in my kitchen and other wee jobs here I might even get around to actually tidy the place up a bit >biggrin<  I had a quick chat with my GP's surgery regarding the incident I had in Berlin and was told that they are only dealing with emergencies, so I don't know if there might have been anything more about what happened to me that I should be concerned about. When I spoke with my sister she felt I needed to ask if I may have experienced a minor stroke. As I didn't want to hold up other callers I just thanked the surgery and that was that end of call. I have Voltarol and will use that to ease the pain in my shoulder. Otherwise I'm feeling fine with my other health issues doing their usual thing, annoying me >lol<

I hope everyone else is keeping well and thank 'eaven that Sunshine's Ouch Too is here.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: auntieCtheM on 23 Mar 2020 07:40PM
Just idly wondering - will burglaries go down now>?
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 23 Mar 2020 07:53PM
JLR2 - in my area the bookies are shut along with the pubs so unless dad can do online betting he wont be placing any bets.

Burglaries - surely the burglars should be self isolating as well  >doh<

This is the DWP update on covid 19

Roundup of recent DWP announcements
 

Changes to jobcentre appointments and Universal Credit
 
People receiving benefits no longer need to attend jobcentre appointments.
 
People will continue to receive their benefits as normal, but all requirements to attend the jobcentre in person are suspended. These changes will be in place for 3 months from 19 March 2020.
 
Anyone already claiming Universal Credit who thinks they may have been affected by coronavirus, should contact their work coach using the
 
online journal, or
calling the Universal Credit helpline. 
 
On Friday the Chancellor announced that the standard rate in Universal Credit and tax credits will be increased by £20 a week for one year from 6 April.
 
People applying for Universal Credit, Employment Support Allowance or other benefits should not go to a jobcentre but apply for them online.

Suspension of face to face assessments for sickness and disability benefits
 
Face to face assessments for all sickness and disability benefits has been suspended.
 
This is being taken as a precautionary measure to protect vulnerable people from unnecessary risk of exposure to coronavirus.
 
We will ensure those who are entitled to a benefit continue to receive support, and that new claimants are able to access the safety net.
 
This affects claimants of Personal Independence Payment, those on Employment and Support Allowance and some on Universal Credit, as well as recipients of Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit. These changes will be in place for 3 months from 17 March 2020.
 
The suspension of face-to-face assessments also covers new claims to those benefits.

£1bn package of additional support for renters
 
The Government has announced a package of measures to protect tenants and landlords affected by coronavirus. Renters will receive nearly £1bn additional support, through increases in the generosity of housing benefit and Universal Credit.
 
From April 2020, Local Housing Allowance rates will pay for at least 30% of market rents in each area.
 
Other measures to protect tenants and landlords include:
 
Emergency legislation to suspend new evictions from social or private rented accommodation while this national emergency is taking place.
No new possession proceedings through applications to the court to start during the crisis.
Landlords will also be protected by extending the three-month mortgage holiday to Buy to Let mortgages.
 
As a result, no renter in either social or private accommodation will be forced out of their home during this difficult time. 

link to the full newsletter http://news.dwp.gov.uk/dwplz/lz.aspx?p1=MS8DUxNzI5NFM2OTA0Ojk4RjQxREFEMjc0RjRDQzQ1RTI3NDVGRjAwNjA0NEJG-&CC=&p=0
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 23 Mar 2020 10:21PM
Getting more scary by the minute isn't it?  jeez  >crying<

There's one thing though, with all the shops being forced to close, the DFS sale is finally over  >lol<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 25 Mar 2020 09:04AM
Monic,

Thank you for the information and link, I hope the DWP comes up with a way of fast tracking claims so the people without money get the help they need as soon as possible. 

Steve,

Your joke made me chuckle  >biggrin<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 25 Mar 2020 12:40PM
"Burglaries - surely the burglars should be self isolating as well  >doh< "

Maybe they could if prison cells didn't see so many prisoners forced to share their cell with others :-)
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 25 Mar 2020 07:00PM
I have a question I've not seen answered on the news.   is it safe to order takeaway food?  ie curry, pizza?

I ask because although I was lucky enough to book a home delivery on the 3rd of April, even though I'm on 'ration' level right now my food isn't going to quite stretch enough so a takeaway would bridge the gap. 

but.. I'm unsure, I mean how do you know their hygiene is good when preparing it?
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 25 Mar 2020 07:08PM
Hi StevieX, I would like to think using a well known supplier might provide some reassurance regarding their hygiene standards.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 25 Mar 2020 08:17PM
Yes you can still order a takeaway but the problem is payment - I suspect they will want card payment rather than cash but you can only ask.

Corona is transmitted through body fluids - sweat, salivia etc so unless a sweaty delivery guy arrives at the door I think your safe.

Don't get mad but what about the foodbank - lots of them are doing deliveries as they know folk are self isolating
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 25 Mar 2020 08:24PM
Yes you can still order a takeaway but the problem is payment - I suspect they will want card payment rather than cash but you can only ask.

Corona is transmitted through body fluids - sweat, salivia etc so unless a sweaty delivery guy arrives at the door I think your safe.

Don't get mad but what about the foodbank - lots of them are doing deliveries as they know folk are self isolating

Thanks, payment by card is ok. can do that.  I'm just worried about the guy coughing into it as he makes it.  haha

and jeez, I'd never get mad with you, you could even call me sweary names and I'd not get mad.  I owe you so much.  >hugs<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: oldtone27 on 26 Mar 2020 09:24AM
I'm no expert but I would imagine that the cooking process would kill most viruses post preparation. The risk might be during the packing, but I any reputable establishment would ensure any staff coughing and spluttering would be sent home immediately.

I don't reckon the risk is any greater than a normal food delivery.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 26 Mar 2020 08:08PM
 >bighugs< Aw Steve - Thanks
I wont be swearing at anyone - yet and as long as I don't get caught rolling eyes we'll be fine >lol<

I think ordering take away should be fine
enjoy your meal
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 31 Mar 2020 08:06PM
So, week 2 of the 'lockdown', how are Ouchers doing?  As a solitary cove anyway, I don't mind about being extra isolated, but had an irritating trip to ASDA this morning to find a long queue of shoppers just waiting to get into the store (standing 2 metres apart, of course, supervised by a member of staff).  I know the 'social distancing' has to apply to supermarkets as well, but I do not care for effectively having to compete for essential resources with other people.

Anyway, remembered there was a Lidl down the road (which I know is there but just never got round to visiting thus far). Nobody standing and waiting, so straight into the store and got most of what I wanted apart from - guess what?

>edited to add
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 31 Mar 2020 09:07PM
Toilet paper  >lol<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 31 Mar 2020 09:10PM
I've heard it said the Daily M**l is good for such a purpose, then again it is so full of sh*t to start with I don't know if it could take anymore.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 01 Apr 2020 12:03PM
Quote
Nobody standing and waiting, so straight into the store and got most of what I wanted apart from - guess what?

Marmite?
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 01 Apr 2020 02:20PM
Sunshine, you've explained Cummings doing his runner bit in Downing Street, Johnson realising he was going to face isolation ordered Cummings to secure as much as he could find >biggrin<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 01 Apr 2020 07:18PM
I have a problem right now, I'm due to get my money on friday but my nearest post office is now almost 2 miles away since my local one was closed last year. and I really need some money soon, I would normally get a taxi there and back but I don't trust that right now, even if the driver is okay, you don't know what the last few passengers were like.

and I simply cannot walk that far, so I'm in a bit of a pickle (my money goes into my post office card account)

I'm okay right now but in a week or so when I need to get some shopping I'll need the money.   
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 01 Apr 2020 08:16PM
Hi Steve,
I think youíll have to contact the local council and ask their advice if thereís any help you can get but I suspect they will tell you to use a taxi, I know youíre worried about the driver but I bet the driver is more worried about whatís wrong with the passenger theyíre picking up, after all taxi drivers are self employed and canít afford to be catching bugs from passengers
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 01 Apr 2020 09:21PM
Toilet paper  >lol<

How did you figure that out  >biggrin<

JLR with your alternate-use suggestion for a certain newspaper >lol< but thankfully I had one more bog roll than I thought I did (like Christmas coming early) so not needing desperate measures quite yet  ;-)

Sunshine, not sure how Marmite stocks are affected as haven't indulged in it for years!  Coincidentally, when I was in M & S this morning, I spotted a new product - Marmite butter, no less.  The mind - and the taste buds - do boggle  >erm<

Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 02 Apr 2020 07:19PM
Marmite butter... where's the vomit emote when I need it.  haha
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 04 Apr 2020 11:11AM
Quote
Sunshine, you've explained Cummings doing his runner bit in Downing Street, Johnson realising he was going to face isolation ordered Cummings to secure as much as he could find >biggrin<

Ha ha ha

Steve,

I can't think of a way around you needing cash money so maybe it is time to apply for a credit card or get a Paypal account? I think you mentioned upthread about getting takeaway, in my experience most places do take either a credit card or Paypal.

Hmm marmite butter does sound better than a jar of marmite with lumps of butter in it. When I was a kid I used to go to stay with my dad in the summmer and my oldest sister lived with him. She seemed unable to wipe the butter off the knife before she dug into the marmite. Maybe that is where the idea came from, in which case is marmite giving my sister a portion of there profits?  >doh<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 06 Apr 2020 09:18PM
Boris in intensive care.

Now, I do not like the guy and I loathe his party and what it stands for, but that said I cannot wish ill on him and I have to wish him the best of luck and hope he pulls through. 

..now I need to go wash my mouth out.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 06 Apr 2020 09:23PM
You might need to use something stronger than that required to kill the coronavirus Steve. So far as Johnson goes I have no pity, the man is responsible, in my opinion, for the needless deaths of thousands of disabled benefit claimants.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 06 Apr 2020 10:34PM
You might need to use something stronger than that required to kill the coronavirus Steve. So far as Johnson goes I have no pity, the man is responsible, in my opinion, for the needless deaths of thousands of disabled benefit claimants.

I totally agree with you he and his party are guilty.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 06 Apr 2020 10:43PM
Bye'eck that little toad Cummings will be worried sick about his puppet PM and the danger of his (DC's) future at No10 being brought to an end.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 07 Apr 2020 08:46AM
Just a fact check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson)

Boris was not in government when most when we were being put through the hardest of times he was the Mayor of London. If you are referring to lives of disabled people that will be lost because the Governments reaction to Covid 19 was too slow, then I agree.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 07 Apr 2020 09:04AM
Sunshine Johnson was a member of the Party whilst those policies were being implemented and raised no objections to them just as he never raised objections to the underfunding of the NHS. It was also Johnson who shortly after his election to Party leader, and later following his election as Prime Minister at the last general election, who tried to claim he should not be held or seen as being responsible for past Party/government actions or policies.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 07 Apr 2020 10:03AM
I agree with you about Boris and other members of the Conservative Party being held to account. 

I fact checked because the comments confused me, I mean if the same had been said about Ian Duncan Smith the reasoning would have been more obvious. I have no issue with what was posted after all people did die because of the actions the Conservative Government took.

One reason Ouch Too has remained open is so such things are not forgotten. The messages all the way back to 2011 are still accessible.
>dove<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 07 Apr 2020 10:21AM
Johnson, like so many of his ilk, has a well developed selective memory only remembering that which he choses to remember. Were it otherwise he would be able to tell those asking just how many children he has fathered.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 07 Apr 2020 01:10PM
As a generality, I loathe the Tories (i.e. politicians, sponsors, campaigners etc, not swing voters not understanding details), although I won't say I've never come across decent ones - I think there's a strand of Tory politics which is opposite of the 'there is no such thing as society' approach.  If one were to characterise Tory as meaning 'take responsibility', I think the prevalent modern version is 'take responsibility for yourself, even if that means what you're actually doing is taking responsibility for what others have done to you, or for your lack of opportunity', but I do think there are still some Tories for whom it means 'we must take responsibility for ourselves and lesser mortals'.  Ok, that can be patronising, but as a left-winger, I'd acknowledge that there are some very patronising leftwingers as well.

On the other hand, I could go spare at those supposedly left of centre politicians who have, to use an emotive word, betrayed people.

E.g. local Labour MP round here.  Problems with benefits?  Go to his constituency office.  Caring, caring.  Parliament cutting benefits?  Sometimes he votes to do so, sometimes he bunks off.  Maybe he thinks not voting makes it easier to go "Not my fault, mate."  After all, it was the Tories that brought in the cuts, so he's not to blame.  Hypocritical wotsit.

Ironically, some Tories have objected to some, at least, of the cuts.  In other words, some Tories appear to be to the left of what I'll call Blue Labour. (My political leanings are pretty evident, aren't they?)

Also, some politicians of various parties have changed their mind about some of the cuts when they've seen the actual results.  I'm not talking about IDS who's only volte face on it was a half-hearted hypocritical one when it suited him to use it to his political advantage, before shutting up about it and doing nothing about it.  To be fair, I think a few politicians have genuinely begun to change their mind.

Back to Johnson.  When did he ever, ever express any disagreement with what's been done to sick and disabled and otherwise disadvantaged people?  Mind you, I think what sums him up on his attitude isn't disability - picking up on what JLR said and extending it, it's the issue of control of spouses/partners.  Yes, the UC thing where one person gets all the benefits.  Mostly that's man with money giving him extra power over his abused/coercively-controlled wife, but not always.  (As a woman, I feel strongly that we must never forget that men can be abused by female or male partners and that we mustn't think women can't abuse male or female partners.) 

But Boris...a man with a track record of cheating on wives/partners and of leaving a trail of children behind him even to the extent of going to court to try to hide the fact that one child was his doesn't object to the man of the house controlling all the money?  Wonder why?  It's not his kids that deserve the description b*st*rd, it's him. 

(As an aside, I sympathise with someone who said that because that word's mainly used as a term of abuse, we need a new word for such children and that 'illegitimate' is no better.)
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 08 Apr 2020 09:32AM
>thumbsup<

You are certainly make me think more about how we end up where we do. People vote for the party they want to run the country and this does mean that those people who voted the Conservative Government in do bear some of the responsibility for what happens to the rest of us. Some people are so focused on what they want and need that they fail to think about/be bothered about other people. This in part is why we ended up in a situation of panic buying in our supermarkets and also why some parks are now closed.

As to Boris I agree his personal behaviour, cheating on his wives does show a lack of good character. It is an interesting one though because if we had a leftist Labour Government that was led by a person who behaved in the same way might we be more forgiving? Sorry I am taking the thread off topic.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 08 Apr 2020 09:23PM
I wouldn't feel very forgiving about it, but then I say that as someone who'd expect behaviour like that in personal relationships to show up in the work context.

I do not have a partner, so I'm aware that I'm seeing couple-dom from the outside.  However, I would map it onto other close relationships, such as business partnerships, very close friendships, parent & child etc.

If you make a commitment to share your life with someone and then when it doesn't work out any more, rather than saying it's not working any more, and gently and carefully and kindly distancing before moving into a new relationship, whilst still maintaining any ongoing responsibilities, instead you just 'do the dirty' on them, it makes it hard for other people to trust you not to 'do the dirty' on people you have no particular reason to care about.

(I've edited that paragraph because I was tangled with my positives and negatives the first time I posted.)

I don't have an expectation that any politicians wouldn't have a streak that, if not nasty, is close to it.  You don't get into parliament without a fight.

And unlike many people, I don't have hang ups about people doing nice things because they think it makes them look good.  Let's say that in your neighbourhood, there are three women with money.  Mrs X loves helping people, so she does.  She doesn't ask for thanks for it.  Well, we're going to like Mrs X and what she does, aren't we?

Mrs Y and Mrs Z challenge us a bit.  You see, neither gives a toss about others.  Mrs Y isn't a hypocrite and sees no virtue in 'virtue signalling', so she pays her taxes and that's that.  Mrs Z doesn't actually give a toss about her neighbours either but likes to look good, so she does loads to help them.

Which neighbour is of more use to you if you're hungry or isolated or otherwise in need?  Mrs Y, who takes care not to do things to look good so doesn't do anything except the bare minimum required by society of paying her taxes, or Mrs Z, who does things so people will admire her, and turns up on your doorstep with a food parcel, goes with you to hospital appointments, recommends a trustworthy tradesman to fix your house and comes round doing the Lady Muck thing when he's there, which reminds him he'd better do a good job or he'll lose the business she brings him. 

Well, of course, we can tend to see it as nicest to be helped by Mrs X, but as between Mrs Y and Mrs Z, neither of whom cares about others, I'd rather be helped by Mrs Z so she can feel good,  than that Mrs Z copies Mrs Y who can't be doing with pretending she cares so doesn't help people.

And of course, most people are on a spectrum in between.

So if we had a horrible person running the country who was rather like Mrs Z and did loads of good things so they could be glorified by it, that would be fine by me.  But if someone like that couldn't be bothered to behave well with their own family, I'd suspect they were a Mrs Y and be very wary.

I must stress, though, that whilst I draw simplistic pictures,  people are individuals on a spectrum in each of multitudinous facets of their thoughts, emotions and behaviours.

(Edited to tidy up.  I think I'd phrased it so it looked like I was saying the opposite of what I was trying to say.)
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 08 Apr 2020 09:32PM
Very good explanation and food for thought. I will try to post more tomorrow
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 09 Apr 2020 07:30AM
Since childhood I've believed that doing something to the betterment of others without looking for thanks for having done it. I think it came about through something I learnt at my Sunday school. Even a simple thing like helping the wee bird in my front garden 10+ years back, it appeared to be near frozen and unable to move and I felt a bit too vulnerable to the local cats so I popped out and brought the wee bird into the house partly to see if it might warm up and with the idea that if it looked like it was going to be OK I could return it to the garden. Well it did recover and I did get it back into the garden, I've a photo somewhere that I took of the young bird as it sat on my drawing table by the window. Thing is though I didn't tell anyone about this incident I've felt the way things happened in my life since then could be in part down to my helping that wee bird.

It's the same whether it is helping someone who finds themselves short at a shop checkout by chipping in or as many folk are doing right now in their helping out those who cannot get out to the shops because of the virus, helping and doing what you feel inside to be the right thing is noticed but not by those around you, more the punter on the 19th floor of a 12 story building, if you get my meaning :-) 

I was going to start another posting but thought it'd be fine to post here so here it is. Yesterday I had to have my prescription delivered and a local volunteer brought it to the house for me, lovely young woman who having made the delivery stayed for a few minutes for a chat (outdoors) I mentioned to her that the only thing that wasn't in my prescription was my 500ml Hibiscrub which I get on repeat prescription. There was a note written on the labelling by the chemist explaining that they have no idea when they might be able to provide any more.

I can guess why there is a shortage of Hibiscrub, its the same hygiene cleaning liquid used in hospitals and doctor surgeries, hopefully I will get some more but in the meantime I have enough to do me for a week or so.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 09 Apr 2020 09:41PM
It must be worrying to not know if you're going to get supplies of something like that.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 09 Apr 2020 11:23PM
It certainly is for me and know doubt others in a similar predicament. I'm in two minds as to asking my GP if there might be another disinfectant like it I could have on prescription. In the meantime I'll just have to be careful to use what I have left sparingly.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 09 Apr 2020 11:29PM
I'm seeing the reports of Johnson being moved out of intensive care, like he should ever have been there in the first place. I doubt there was anything wrong with the guy to start with more likely it's been a case of him hiding from the media again but he was missing being in front of the cameras too much and was beginning to fear Raab getting too much airtime so decided it's time for his miraculous recovery to begin. Heaven help him when if he does contract the virus now.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 10 Apr 2020 11:05AM
Going back to what Sunny was saying about

Quote
So if we had a horrible person running the country who was rather like Mrs Z and did loads of good things so they could be glorified by it, that would be fine by me. 

This reminded me of how some people like Mrs Z what more than being glorified, they can become controlling in the help they give and in their opinion of how the recipient of their help should behave. I have often thought we should have a separate thread on how disabled people are helped by others and what it can mean.


Quote
If you make a commitment to share your life with someone and then when it doesn't work out any more, rather than saying it's not working any more, and gently and carefully and kindly distancing before moving into a new relationship, whilst still maintaining any ongoing responsibilities, instead you just 'do the dirty' on them, it makes it hard for other people to trust you not to 'do the dirty' on people you have no particular reason to care about


Good point, looking back I think I tend to be too hopeful about how people are going to behave. It is hard to explain right now.


JLR

I hope you get some more Hibiscrub soon, I like your description of how you saved the bird and also what you said about the punter on the 19th floor :-)
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 10 Apr 2020 02:49PM
Before anyone wades through the rest of what I'm about to say, a reminder - I take an interest in long-term history, empires, dictatorships, exploitation.  I actually believe that in between the worst of the nastiness, throughout history, humans have been blessed with near-misses.  The near-dictator who found sufficient pleasure without turning to slaughter and torture.  The country that got close to the brink then elected a new government.  Etc.  Don't let the negative stuff I'm going to say take away from that.

Without being too detailed, I've gone through a big learning curve about people in recent years.  When I was looking after Dad, a close relative said "You need to see what he's doing to you."  I started learning and the long-term posters here have seen my slow learning progress.

Dad did a lot of good in his life, a lot of voluntary work, a lot of charity work etc.  But he was also a controlling narcissist (in the sense of the personality disorder, not in the colloquial sense of loving himself - he was deeply insecure).  My childhood was plagued by his unreasonable demands and I ended up co-dependent in nature, just like my mother, whose rebellion only came towards retirement age.

But I wasn't just bullied at home, I was bullied at school etc. and my mother always had an excuse for the bullies, so I grew up always finding an excuse for people who bullied me.  I'd almost got over that until I got in the modern psychiatric system where the message I took away was "It's your fault you get hurt, because you've got this illness."  (My psychiatric nurse also convinced me that if I got myself re-baptised and then confirmed as a Catholic and made confession, all would be well with me.  She did all the godmother bit.)

So if you grow up making excuses for others, when people do bad things, it's easy to see it as a glitch or as something that was meant to be good but went wrong.

On the other hand, it can also, if less severe, teach you that people don't necessarily start off bad and really nasty people can also have nice traits that effectively cover up the nastiness.

For example, I'm someone who doesn't believe that Hitler was simply always as nasty as we remember him.  I don't suppose he was ever nice, but I think he started out within the range of nastiness of our elected politicians and got worse from there.  I think what really brought out the worst in him was the cocktail of drugs he took. 

But it wouldn't serve our collective memory well to see it that way.  It's like people forget that  the 'final solution' wasn't the first solution.  We're smug about taking the Kindertransport children whilst 'forgetting' (or in many people's case never knowing) that our government told Hitler, when he was trying simply to expel all the Jews from Germany, that no, we wouldn't take a share of them.

Or what about the build up to T4.  Others may correct my German, but I think Lebensunwertes Leben is a wonderful bit of verbal trickery, and the English translation doesn't do it justice.  You see, in German, the noun-bit of a verb isn't the -ing ending (living = present participle or noun) but the infinitive = third person singular (Leben [capital L] = living (noun) = life, leben (lower case l) = to live (infinitive) and live (present tense plural). 

Thus Lebensunswertes Leben (which I've also seen written as Lebensunswertes leben) is approximately life/living not worthy of life/living.  It started out as meaning something approximating to 'their lives are unbearable' and ending up as something approximating to 'they're not worthy of life'. 

So imagine you're a doctor, a nurse, a care-worker.  How hard to be persuaded that, having regard to the treatments and resources of the time, those disabled people are suffering horribly and should be freed from their misery?  Is that much worse than saying enough's enough with forced medical treatment, withdrawing it and giving morphine primarily to ease the distress, thus resulting in less suffering but earlier death?

By the time it's become bump-'em-off, you're stuck in the system and you'd better hope you're not murdered as well.

So those of us that instinctively 'make excuses' for people, or at the very least, look for the good in them, can do what others do and close our eyes to the drift, or we can use our nature to see that the number of powerful people with a potential for evil is massively greater than the number who actually tip over the edge into tyrannical, murderous dictatorship.

I'll also go a step further and say that surreally sometimes people can actually be better off under a dictatorial regime so long as they are seen as conforming and having a use (and disabled people can have a use if they make a nasty person seem benevolent).

Whereas mostly nice people can do horrid things, maybe not even intending to be horrid.

It is that very complexity, that very tendency for people not to be all-good or all-bad that gives us potential for improvement.

So the way I try to find hope is to remember that nastiness can move in both directions and a potentially nasty politicians or groups of politicians can find they get more of a kick out of doing nice things.

Some politicians may get more of a kick out of being seen as saviours in this pandemic than out of doing horrid things.  I need that hope.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 10 Apr 2020 08:58PM
Sunny, that was quite a brilliant post. On one point I might make a different suggestion, where you suggest the cocktail of drugs Hitler was consuming changing his nature for the worst, I feel it possible he allowed himself to be influenced by some of those he had kept company with, perhaps even without realising or noticing it. The guy who wins one world championship finds himself devoid of the elation that brings with it and so feels he has to win more world championships than someone else. We, or some of us at least, feel when driving that for whatever reason we just have to pass that car ahead of us on the road and when we find another car in front off we go again with the notion we just need to pass it. It's daft I know but it is how many folk tend to find their driving habits are influenced by whatever subconscious inner being feels is right for us.

I mind many years back, when I was driving my Mk5 Cortina's, looking at passing Granada's and feeling I would like one of those, nowadays I'm content with my 207sw maybe I've just grown up a bit >biggrin< 
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 10 Apr 2020 09:02PM
Sunny,

That would make a good blog post.

I think those of us who are either disabled from birth or become disabled when young often don't realise what was going on around them until they get to their late 40s of 50s. I talked a bit about how my family were with me a while ago. Thinking about it now the most shocking thing is that when I ended up confronting my sisters they did not seem the least bit upset about all the revelations that came out of me going to counselling. It took a good four years to get where I am now. The response of my sisters amounted to a denial that the actual facts had any value and meant nothing going forward.

Quote
Lebensunwertes Leben

I Googled that because I don't know much about the Second World War. The technology, wealth and knowledge available in countries like the UK do make it more difficult to think there will ever be a time when the perceived quality of a disabled person's life is used to determine whether they live or die. Nevertheless as soon as the reality of the Covid 19 pandemic hit people the panic buying seemed to take supermarkets and the Government by surprise. It makes me wonder about the hmm I am not sure what to call them - when people have practise runs for what to do when a disaster strikes. I do wonder if there were decision makers who knew that old and disabled people would be put in desperate situations when all the home delivery slots were gone in one big whoosh taken in part by able bodied people who could go to the shops themselves. It seems to me that it would have been a matter of creating a piece of software to pull information from the supermarket customer databases and make sure people who had regular deliveries had those delivery slots maintain. Could it be that panic buying was something the Government needed to happen before they announced a lock down - so people did  not have the excuse of having no food in the house to buy food for a while.


Quote
I'll also go a step further and say that surreally sometimes people can actually be better off under a dictatorial regime so long as they are seen as conforming and having a use (and disabled people can have a use if they make a nasty person seem benevolent).

I agree and have lived it or something very similar.

Hmm it is worth mentioning the middle manager types who don't speak up, the ones who say that rules and procedures are this or that and so they can give a bespoke response or arrangement.

 
Quote
So the way I try to find hope is to remember that nastiness can move in both directions and a potentially nasty politicians or groups of politicians can find they get more of a kick out of doing nice things.

Some politicians may get more of a kick out of being seen as saviours in this pandemic than out of doing horrid things.  I need that hope.

 >thumbsup<

I was writing as JLR was posting, he beat me to it. :-)
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 10 Apr 2020 09:12PM
I had a 205 and it is still the car I wish I could drive again.

A person's attitude to their own driving style can say a lot about the type of person they are.

It can also be used in a question able what sick and disabled people have a right to determine. It took me years to persuade Mr Sunshine to have two driving styles, one for when I was in the car and one for when he is on his own
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 10 Apr 2020 10:10PM
One of the things about many of the trials that followed the ending of WWII was how many of the middle managers Sgts, Cpls and troops looked to explain their actions as, in effect, company policy the company being the Nazi government and whilst this argument was dismissed at their trial the same was neither the court's nor the allies attitude when it came to those involved in the Nazis rocket programmes around the V1 and V2 missiles. One of these German scientists was spirited away to the US where he became involved with the American space programme and eventually granted American citizenship.

If it were possible I'd swap my 207sw for a Mk5 Ford Cortina estate unfortunately the way things are with the government looking to do away with petrol/diesel engines I doubt I'd be able run a Cortina as I think the way the governments of both the UK and here in Scotland will bring in or implement rules where the date someone buys their car is going to impact on any compensation or help that may be made available to car owners as they look to switch to electric cars.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 11 Apr 2020 01:32AM
Quote
where you suggest the cocktail of drugs Hitler was consuming changing his nature for the worst, I feel it possible he allowed himself to be influenced by some of those he had kept company with, perhaps even without realising or noticing it.
Agreed.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 11 Apr 2020 01:45AM
Picking up on the bit about self-determination for sick and disabled people.

I feel that this is quite a key time and some of the blogs and articles by very disabled people are, I think, confronting others with the complexity of some of the issues.

Also, having this big drive to get involved and help others in the community may make some people a bit more aware of their neighbours and maybe a bit more empathetic, or at least sympathetic?

And the outpourings of "I can't live on benefits" are thrust into our faces again and again, like the latest 111 call-centre exposťs about people working for private contract companies going to work with covid-19 symptoms because they can't afford to live off sick pay.  A bit more front-page, in-your-face than the usual stuff about benefits.

Again, with carers justifiably 'screaming' to the media about the lack of equipment, and care homes nationally and locally 'screaming' to the media about disabled people, mostly older people, dying and not showing up in the statistics, it's there in people's faces.   Carers, carers, carers.  Whose carers?  There are that many carers?  There are that many people needing care?!  And what's with all this 'dump people with coronavirus in a care home with lots of others?!  That could be my grandma, or, in not many years, me!" 

Even if just a few more people get the message, then good.

And this time around, the government's going to struggle to argue it's the foreigners or Muslims or dark-skinned people that are to blame for things.  Gosh, look, they're the ones sacrificing their lives to save lives.  I hope to hell the staff in the NHS make the most of any political advantage from that to protect themselves after the pandemic.

Lots of horrid stuff, but lots of potential.

The potential for economic collapse worries me, and China's predatory behaviour worries me, but we could, if we're lucky, end up with a better society for a while.  To the metaphorical battlements, Disabled Warriors!

(Yes, ok, knock them down with those cars.  Battering rams on the front, blue badge pennants flying overhead.)
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 12 Apr 2020 08:41AM
Having tried googling the question without any success I thought I'd ask if anyone here on Ouch might have any idea. My question was why the coronavirus travel from east to west across the world? What brought this question to my mind was as I looked on line and watched the telly no one ever seemed to explain why the virus spread as it did. It is one thing to link folk travelling from China back to say Italy, the German skiers who returned to Germany from their ski trip to Italy or folk returning to the UK from Italy or Germany and then those going onto the USA via New York but then didn't anyone fly from China to San Francisco or Los Angels?

If the virus is carried person to person surely we would have seen a more even spread of the virus with it hitting places such as New York and Rome just as hard and at pretty much the same time, no? Many carrying the virus could have travelled from China through London's Heathrow to New York or even San Francisco within 24hrs of those returning to the UK but we haven't seen the timings of the outbreaks matching up.

The talk on the news about how the UK is about a fortnight behind Italy in its experiencing the impact of the virus has me wondering why there should be this delay if folk carrying the virus have been arriving back in both countries from China wouldn't we see a simultaneous impact in both Italy and the UK?

My thought is that this virus can or might be being carried in the air, perhaps something no government would want to be mentioning to its people as the panic that would grip the world would be like a Hollywood disaster movie only without the big name stars.     
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: lankou on 12 Apr 2020 08:55AM
Having tried googling the question without any success I thought I'd ask if anyone here on Ouch might have any idea. My question was why the coronavirus travel from east to west across the world?



Direction of spin of the Earth, prevailing wind.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 12 Apr 2020 09:04AM
Lankou, that's what I'm thinking and if this is right wouldn't it suggest the lockdown is pointless or at least the distancing measures are?  If this virus is being carried by the wind and reaching around the world as it is then it certainly can travel a damn sight more than 2mtrs and can survive in the air longer than we are being told.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: lankou on 12 Apr 2020 09:50AM
Lankou, that's what I'm thinking and if this is right wouldn't it suggest the lockdown is pointless or at least the distancing measures are?  If this virus is being carried by the wind and reaching around the world as it is then it certainly can travel a damn sight more than 2mtrs and can survive in the air longer than we are being told.

There is NO evidence it travels in air outside for long distances. However in a loaded with virus atmosphere in confined spaces there is now evidence.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: oldtone27 on 12 Apr 2020 03:23PM
I think the main driver of spread is association.

Whether the pandemic started in a market or otherwise it seems clear to have started in a fairly confined area of China. I suspect the first victims were people who had a fairly limited sphere of travel.

As it spread through that community it then encountered more mobile people who then dispersed and created new centres. Don't forget it takes some time for people to be aware they have an infection and even then may be considered minor.

Looking at its international progress it seems to me that it follows the principle air routes quite closely. Which region gets becomes aware first probably depends on whether the 'spreaders' associate with a localised group or a mobile group such as holiday makers in a ski resort. Thus one gets an  erratic but inexorable spread.

This is bourne out so far by the apparent scarcity of virus in many 'underdeveloped' nations. They do not attract the volume of international traffic, but  will succumb eventually. Of course, under reporting is also a very real possibility.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 13 Apr 2020 11:33AM
I agree with Oldtone  >thumbsup<

I found this https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global?animate=2019-12-08,2020-04-10,0,0,30000 If you click Play on the map on the right it shows progression of Covid 19 and how it has changed genetically. If I am reading it correctly it looks like the virus when from China to Europe and a somewhat different strain went from Europe to China later on.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 14 Apr 2020 07:14PM
Well, not moving my money over from the post office to a bank has really come back to bite me in the rear.
I didn't collect my due money almost 2 weeks ago because I thought the risk of getting a taxi to the post office would be too great but now I'm almost out of money and I will have no option in the next couple of days but to some how get into town and to the post office as otherwise I can't pay my internet fee and cannot order any more shopping. 

I'm really not sure what to do, a taxi is scary even if they are still running and walking that distance and back is simply not possible even taking rests all the way.  I did pluck up the courage to phone the PO (I hate using the phone) and asked if there was anyway of doing an online transfer but I got pretty much a "no, tough" as they didn't seem to give a hoot.

Not sure what to do, I'm open to ideas. 
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 14 Apr 2020 07:42PM
Hi Steve
First you check the opening times of the post office, then you phone a taxi, the driver will not want to catch anything from you so will be keeping as distant as possible.  Then you join the queue for the post office maintaining the 2 meters between you and the customer in front of you.   You pay all possible bills you have, withdraw enough money in as small a denomination as possible, get some £ coins in case the taxi driver on the way back wants exact money.  Once you get back from the PO you leave your shopping at the door, go in wash your hands and then go back bring in the shopping and then wash your hands again.

Taxi's are still running but want to remain working so wont take a customer who they think is unwell.

I am out every 3rd day but as long as I keep my distance from everyone else its been fine, everyone seems to have slowed down a bit because there is a limit on the places they can go and they don't want to rush so just take your time, go into the chemist and get some antibacterial gel while you are there and you'll be ok for the next trip in a few weeks.

Take your deep breaths before you go out and if you really feel daring wear a bandana and kid on your going to rob the post office not just withdraw some money >lol< 

take care
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 14 Apr 2020 07:46PM
haha, thank you! 
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 14 Apr 2020 10:47PM
Steve, I saw somewhere that the banks are intending to allow their customers to have someone collect money from their account through some sort of voucher/coupon scheme. As best as I can mind the little I read of this scheme the account holder would be given some sort of 4 digit pin code for the person they've nominated to go to the bank to collect the money and it is a limited use thing in that whoever does the collecting cannot use the pin number again. Perhaps if there is a volunteer you feel you can trust you could ask them to visit the post office to collect your needed money.

Just thought I'd mention, tonight I've made a wee face mask using the sewing machine I got for my friend in Berlin. On the inside I used some denim from an old pair of wrecked wranglers and on the ootside some left over heavy olive green canvas I had that doing nothing. I'm hoping the canvas will do a good job as it's waterproof so I guess its weave must be quite dense and if so prevent me from spreading anything of a nasty nature.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 15 Apr 2020 08:44AM
Steve,

I think Monic's advice about getting a taxi is good, but I just had a look at the Post Office website and it does look like you might be able to set up online banking. It would mean making another phone call

If you've forgotten your login details call us on 0800 169 7500.

https://www.pofssavecredit.co.uk/POFS-NPS/do/login?methodname=displayPresignin

Alternatively you could see if you were sent log in or registration details when you opened the account.

As long as you make your banking password strong it is a safe way to manage your money.

Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 15 Apr 2020 07:19PM
Sunshine I really really do appreciate that but I believe it's for a different type of account.  Mine is the post office card account that the government asked them to setup some years ago.  it's not a PO savings account sadly. but that said, it is worth a phone call to clarify it and I will brave a phone call tomorrow and ring that number.  Thank you
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 16 Apr 2020 09:13AM
 >hugs< I hope it gets sorted out well- maybe they will let you open another account and transfer some of your money to that.

Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: SteveX on 16 Apr 2020 07:21PM
I phoned and jeez they couldn't have been more unhelpful if they tried, I did explain my situation slowly and calmly and I was always very polite but the woman just snapped at me and apparently there is nothing I can do at all apart from actually going to the PO (or getting someone else to go)

It was worth a try though, thank you.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 16 Apr 2020 08:41PM
Hi Steve

At least you tried, Im sorry you got a crabbit call handler.  I have been on the phones all day and try not to snap at folk.  I wont kid on I manage every time.  

As a council staff member I have been put on the local assistance line, benefit helpline, Scottish government helpline so I don't know which call I am going to get next but some callers make me want to scream or just cry  >crying< 

Examples - Thanks for the parcel of free food but I want to report that the tins were bashed,  my gran told me you can get botulism from bashed tins so can I get some that aren't bashed -  deep breaths OK thanks for your call but I cant get you unbashed tins - caller" so are you saying I wont get botulisim from the tins" explained that bashed tins can be used as long as the tins are not perforated and no air has got into the food. also shops will sell tins that are bashed cheaper and as long as you use them in the next week it'll be fine.    Caller "so should I get the tins out the bin then"  >crying< >crying< >crying< >crying< 
its your choice - you can use the tins if you need to eat the food and have no other food, if you open the tin and the food smells like cat food then that probably means the food is spoiled and shouldn't be eaten, if you have enough food to last you for another week then don't eat the tins but I don't think your going to get botulism.

Next caller - thanks for the food but the portions are too big - ok if you can divide the food up and freeze the spare. caller "yes I can but why cant you send smaller portions?"  >erm< probably because they'd rather you had too much than too little.

Emails sent off and head bouncing I wanted to give up.

Since lockdown is going to be for another 3 weeks - I will be doing this for a while, I hope someone knows what they are doing cos Im not sure if Im doing this correctly or not and I tried to be polite - I might have been slightly hysterical by the time I took the final call - no one has called back to complain about the silly manic worker who doesn't know whats going on.  >whistle<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 17 Apr 2020 10:17AM
Monic with callers like those you've mentioned I am not surprised we've ended up with Johnson as the country's PM :-(
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: auntieCtheM on 17 Apr 2020 07:46PM
 >hugs<  to Monic
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 17 Apr 2020 08:40PM
You have a tough gig there, Monic - seems like some of your callers left their brains elsewhere, to put it politely  >doh<

Yes, another three weeks, not in the least surprised.  I suppose it's better we all sit it out for the duration rather than going through it a second time later on in the year  >erm<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Monic1511 on 17 Apr 2020 10:00PM
>lol< Thanks for the hugs, at least it wasnít a full moon, thatís when it gets worse but we expect it then.  

Today wasnít bad except for 1 lady who wouldnít give her details but complained I wasnít sending someone to help her.  Oh dear , as JLR said you can see why we have this level of government when these are the voters.

3 more weeks and my colleagues and I will have our own locked ward  >lol<
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Sunshine on 18 Apr 2020 10:00AM
Steve,

Well done for phoning  >hugs<  I am sorry the person you talked to was so unhelpful.

Monic,

 >hugs<  and thank you clap clap clap clap clap clap clap or should I say ding ding dink ding ding because I can't clap so use a pan lid and wooden spoon instead.

It it still does amaze me how unhelpful some callers can be when they call you to get help. I think JLR made a good point but maybe many of the people who are so hard to help are often the same ones who don't vote. I realise some will be panicking and many will be having to ask for help for the first time after having the floor beneath them when suddenly their expected income was gone. Hopefully it will make the people who were not engaging their brain when topics like social justice came up.

Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: JLR2 on 18 Apr 2020 08:00PM
"3 more weeks and my colleagues and I will have our own locked ward  >lol<"

Seems to me the this government's entire cabinet, including the hiding PM, should be in a locked ward now.




Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Fiz on 25 May 2020 11:48AM
Getting more scary by the minute isn't it?  jeez  >crying<

There's one thing though, with all the shops being forced to close, the DFS sale is finally over  >lol<
>lol<  rofl
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Fiz on 25 May 2020 12:34PM
Having tried googling the question without any success I thought I'd ask if anyone here on Ouch might have any idea. My question was why the coronavirus travel from east to west across the world? What brought this question to my mind was as I looked on line and watched the telly no one ever seemed to explain why the virus spread as it did. It is one thing to link folk travelling from China back to say Italy, the German skiers who returned to Germany from their ski trip to Italy or folk returning to the UK from Italy or Germany and then those going onto the USA via New York but then didn't anyone fly from China to San Francisco or Los Angels?

If the virus is carried person to person surely we would have seen a more even spread of the virus with it hitting places such as New York and Rome just as hard and at pretty much the same time, no? Many carrying the virus could have travelled from China through London's Heathrow to New York or even San Francisco within 24hrs of those returning to the UK but we haven't seen the timings of the outbreaks matching up. 
International travel. Mainly by air. Millions fly around the world daily. I was reading a forum on cruises during the month of April and I was stunned to read new posts from US citizens write that they had just returned from their Mediterranean cruise having flown back from Italy via Heathrow and they'd had no problems at Heathrow with no checks on entering UK soil and transferring terminals to get their outbound flights back to the US sometimes after spending the night at the airport not even having a temperature check. Our country still has no checks on people coming in! There has been much info on how long the virus stays alive for on various surfaces, the longest quoted as being 72 hours but experts say it could be longer so if anyone touches a surface up to 72 hours after someone carrying the virus they can catch it. This virus is caught far more easily than flu, it's far stronger and far more virulent than flu and I feel frustrated when I hear of the two being compared. Their only connection is they're both viruses that affect the lungs. Their strength and virulence are incomparable.
Had we shut our airports to all but our citizens returning home and insisting on them self isolating at home for 14 days following their flight home back in January thousands more people would be alive now. Boris however was playing golf.
Title: Re: The Corona Virus 2020 - theories, expectations and practical tips
Post by: Fiz on 25 May 2020 01:22PM
This has been an interesting thread to read, all nine pages of it. From way back in January to when people weren't worried (not many Chinese visitors here) right through to now. 

I haven't been well this year mentally so was totally unaware of Covid-19 in January or possibly even most of February. I do have recollections of it in March before my OD on the 6th. My first reminder of its existence was on the 16th when I was discharged when the doctor told me about my adrenal glands not functioning and me therefore having no immunity. She told me that I'd have trouble fighting a cold right now so it was very important to shield myself as much as possible to reduce the opportunity of catching Covid. She also told me that they had tested me for Covid and the test was negative. At that stage they were only testing inpatients in hospitals. Unless you were elderly and going to be discharged to a care home in which case they didn't test you. 

I feel very guilty for taking up an ICU bed and a ventilator despite it being early days and I suspect there was a ventilator free and available. I always feel guilty about how much I cost the NHS and the country though so I guess my first self inflicted ICU stay has piled that on thick. 

My daughter who many here will know qualified as a nurse a couple of years back was successful at gaining promotion (I am SO proud of her) and she is now a sister in an A&E unit and I worry about her every day through the day. I verbalised my worry to her and asked her if she could send me a quick text once daily to let me know she's okay and I'll take okay as being symptom free and she did that for a while but now has personal problems and has withdrawn and is hunkering down to work her way through that so isn't in regular contact with me or the boys any more. I just have to worry alone despite me trying to tell myself that worry is a waste of now and changes nothing. Hum. She had one swab test within a week of the tests FINALLY being started. She was negative but a few of her colleagues were positive and had to isolate. The result had taken five days to come back and those positives had been working with patients and been around colleagues for those five days. My daughter said that any contact with patients is in full PPE so the patients treated by those staff were not at risk, but they weren't in PPE when around colleagues during the shift. Amazingly none of those colleagues who tested positive ever had any symptoms, they didn't feel even the slightest under the weather. The media is implying that people can be asymptomatic before symptoms appear but they haven't said that people may have Covid and show no symptoms at all. It's good news heard immunity wise though. My daughter had not been offered another swab four weeks later, I have no idea if she has had a second swab test at any stage. Many front line workers like her positive colleagues may have had Covid and recovered while all the time asymptomatic during those four + weeks of course. To me, a test that takes five days to get results has little point.

I am struggling with the social isolation of shielding at home and living alone. I am normally fine living alone and not lonely so this has made me realise that my weekly peer support group and the 5 or 6 times a year that I managed to get myself to church were so important to me mentally. It makes me sad to think that there are so many others struggling alone with no contact with anyone due to this pandemic. But maybe I am just not well and that is part of it. And no face to face support from professionals. 

With regard to lockdown, I think Boris was an idiot to ease restrictions, it horrifies me to see the crowds on beaches and knowing they're not even breaking rules. I had thought that we would see case numbers rise hugely after this easing but it's not obvious yet. The press don't seem to realise that number reporting lapses at weekends so we see accurate daily numbers Tuesdays to Fridays. Either that or it's sheer coincidence that numbers of cases and deaths have been much higher on Tuesdays to Fridays every single week of the reporting in England!

And I don't care what Cummings did, except that he should apologise and admit he was wrong, but Boris backing him angers me. That he would stick up for his drinking buddy rather than save lives by telling the public that what Cummings did was wrong and that people MUST stay home and isolate if they have symptoms. On the news this morning it was suggested that Boris isn't a strong enough leader to lead this country alone without Cummings support, that he 100% needs him to help him run the country so he has chosen this route. Fair enough Boris, don't sack Cummings, keep him, but flipping well save lives by telling the public that this sort of behaviour is not acceptable and alter the wording of the guidelines to make this 100% clear to people so people have no excuse to opt themselves out. Boris in my opinion has put people's lives at risk to save a mate. 

Auntie, I note your Mum is in a care home. I hope she is okay and the home she is in remains free of Covid. Awful the way the government treated older people as lesser citizens before the media changed that.