Ouch Too - a place for and about disabled people.

Forum => Welfare Rights => Topic started by: AccessOfficer on 12 Apr 2013 10:36AM

Title: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: AccessOfficer on 12 Apr 2013 10:36AM
I have just read this post on the Rightsnet discussion forum webpages. I thought fellow Ouchers would like to read it so I have copied and pasted it for you. It was posted by a Team Leader in one of the pilot areas in Newcastle, his name is: Lee Forest.

We at Isos Housing made a claim with a resident for Personal Independence Payment this morning….

The client was asked for the following:

•  National Insurance number
•  Date of Birth
•  Security Questions- this is worrying, as the questions were such things as ‘when did your other benefits start’?. Luckily the adviser was nice, used common sense and was not unyielding. It’s an unknown whether or not that was because I was on the phone.

•  Confirm address
•  Residency; whether she is an EEA National, whether she had been out of the country
•  Client is then asked whether they come under the special rules- interestingly, DWP didn’t ask about the length of time they needed help for
•  Client was not asked if they lived in supported housing, ‘sheltered accommodation’ or was in a nursing home
•  Which healthcare professional would be best to contact. Client said GP. Client was then asked to give name of GP, address including postcode and telephone number.

•  Client was then asked if she agreed for the DWP or another organisation acting on its behalf to contact that healthcare professional

•  Client was then asked for bank details including sort code etc
•  Client was then asked how they preferred communications- telephone or letter.
•  Client was then asked if they have any ‘mental health problems’- the operator then read a (very) long list of conditions from ‘learning difficulties’(?)  to psychosis. If an applicant says yes to any of these, they get an extra 2 weeks to arrange help from a support agency. Operator mentioned ‘CAB or other support agency’.
•  A declaration was then read out.


The next part of the form will now be sent to the client. Because we were only the second people who had called since 8am, the operator estimated that the form should reach her by the end of the week.

Timescales

Reportedly, the client has 19 days to return the form before they are sent a reminder from DWP to return it. If the form still has not been returned after 30 days in total, the claim will be closed. As above, if the client has indicated they have mental health problems, they will get an extra 2 weeks to enable them to source support.

The process took 30 minutes and included me grilling them about timescales, the tenant looking for her bank details, me Googling the GP’s postcode and telephone number, and the ‘system going slow’

Best wishes
AO
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 12 Apr 2013 11:38AM
Thanks for posting, AO - will move this to Welfare Rights in a day or so for ease of future reference  >thumbsup<
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: AccessOfficer on 12 Apr 2013 12:19PM
Thanks Kizzzy,

I was going to post this on Welfare Rights myself but considerd that more Ouchers would read it on Talk first
Regards

AO
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: JLRRAC on 12 Apr 2013 05:18PM
"Client was then asked for bank details including sort code etc" >yikes<

Do not give these details to anyone phoning claiming to be from the DWP/JC+.

The DWP will already have these details on their records for everyone claiming benefits be they housing benefit, tax credits, Job seekers allowance or disability benefits.  Many bogus/fraudulent scammers will be using these change overs in benefits to catch thousands out.

I have just finished a call I made there to my MP's office whilst typing this post and she will check but is fairly certain that the DWP never ask foir claimants banking details, they may confirm them as in, "We are currently paying your benefits into account number******* is this correct and then the claimant has a chance to confirm the details but it's never the other way around.

Please everyone be careful regarding calls coming from those claiming to be from the DWP and do what you can to be aware of any calls you are expecting, things like arranging any call backs or set dates or times for calls to be arranged with as little a window as possible something like within two hours of the arranged time for a call.  If you are to expect a call at 1pm then let the JC+ or DWP punter know you will only trust the call if it is between 1/4 to one pm and 1/4 to three pm this lessens the chances of being caught by a rogue caller after your bank details.

Don't forget there are a huge number of people getting calls from the DWP and they have learnt the procedures used so pretending to be from the DWP or JC+ will not be too difficult for some of the rotten apples in the barrel to see an oppertunity to con someone.
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: Monic1511 on 12 Apr 2013 07:43PM
JLR

the DWP person who calls you doesn't have access to see your bank details so it would be hard for them to say we are paying them into this account.   The point in this explanation was that the claimant was phoning the DWP to make a claim for PIP.  Its the same when people are making a new claim for ESA, they have to nominate an account for any possible award to be paid into.

I agree people need to be careful if they are called by someone purporting to be from DWP but it was the other way round on this occasion.
 >dove<
Monic
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: JLRRAC on 12 Apr 2013 07:55PM
Thanks Monic, I stand corrected :-)
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: Danslatete on 12 Apr 2013 08:25PM
Personally i would still not feel comfortable doing that.  There is usually a bit on the form that is for the banking details. I would tell them i need to just do the form.
I'm rubbish on the phone so i hope the change over is more simple.
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: JLRRAC on 12 Apr 2013 08:29PM
After what we learnt about ESA 50's being opened in a PO sorting room how would/could we be assured that any banking info entered into these forms remains secure from prying eyes?
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: Monic1511 on 12 Apr 2013 08:46PM
I think the whole problem with the new claims is that they have to be done either by phone or by internet
paper claims are to be a last resort and will probably only be offered if someone shouts very loudly on your behalf.

I am dreading this as a worker cos it takes long enough to write a paper claim, imagine trying to get 6 ESA50's done online in 3 hours with 6 different people.  I did a child benefit form once and it refused to let me print it because it said a "field not completed - please complete and then submit"  the form eventually crashed and I had to just phone & request the form, the worker told me "If you submit a paper claim it can take 12 weeks to process and we can't guarantee backdating to the date the child was born, its quicker to do it online"   I then explained I had spent the last 45 minutes trying to get their stupid form to print & there was an error with it and it refused to print  >yikes< >yikes< >yikes<
She then agreed to send the form to the claimant  >steam<
Monic
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: JLRRAC on 12 Apr 2013 08:58PM
Monic, the JC+/DWP are going to have a wee bit of a problem then with me because I will not do any benefits claim related activity on the web/internet. Neither will I do future ESA50's over the phone.

In many of my postings there can be seen the times of my last edits, these edits happen for two reasons mainly, spelling and the rephrasing of what I've said.

Doing a phone ESA50 would have me failing to remember what I've said even within moments of saying it. It would also leave me concerned about other electronic devices being used, lie detection systems and the like which have been shown to be fallible.

So far as using my obvious web connection to the benefit of either the present government or a future government this is not going to happen. If the government want me to have contact with their departments such as the DWP then it will fall to them to provide me with a computer, web connection, web security and a separate landline based Internet service provider. I will continue to base my welfare benefit claims on paper.
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: Yvette on 12 Apr 2013 09:55PM
If you have to do the assessment over the phone or on the internet, how can you submit letters from Consultants etc. as proof of your condition?
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: devine63 on 13 Apr 2013 02:06AM


"Client was then asked if they have any ‘mental health problems’- the operator then read a (very) long list of conditions from ‘learning difficulties’(?)  to psychosis."

how reassuring (not) that the people who have designed the process don't know that learning difficulties (which could be anything from mild dyslexia to very severe generalised learning disability with inability to communicate at all) are definitely not mental health conditions!!!!!

regards, Deb
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: Fiz on 13 Apr 2013 05:50AM
They are lumped together though health wise, mental health hospitals (long term, now largely closed down) had a lot of residents with learning difficulties rather than main stream mental health. CTT/CMHT has a large number of service users with LD too, who obviously do have MT difficulties in the medical sense requiring medication (often sedative) and do need emotional support too but their mental health conditions do have different causes on the whole and therefore don't tend to lead to the same treatments. They're therefore mostly long term patients requiring symptom control. In the medical model then they can be classed together but in the social model it's an idea that struggles imo.
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: Danslatete on 13 Apr 2013 09:36AM
I could not do it on line. I struggle with logging on. Its not so bad when im on the site. i can type and then it says post on a square so its good. I tried with help to do a form for scouting on line and i just couldnt get it to work, i got stressesed out my head and ended up in bed because i got so worn out from it. A grown woman crying over something that was supposed to be simple and fool proof. Its only simple if you know how.
My kids have got this and other site i visit with just a picture i click on and then there is no logginig on, it keeps me logged in because im rubbish with passwords.
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: JLRRAC on 13 Apr 2013 10:26AM
Thinking about it dealing with the DWP through the use of phone calls. As most will experience at the very outset of a call to either the DWP or JC+ the caller (claimant) is told their call will be monitored and recorded. Well OK if that's the only way the DWP/JC+ will accept the  call.

Next comes the problem of disputes claimant say they said one thing DWP/JC+ claim otherwise but it is only the DWP/JC+ who have the recordings. So is it time for all claimants to be provided with copies of each and every phone call recording held on them by the DWP/JC+?  And having it within a week of the call being recorded.

Though I am oblivious as to why so many depend on mobile phones to make their calls they do and so a claimant in a dispute ends up spending a small fortune in phone charges. One senario I can imagine happening is where the claimant on discovering they have reason to dispute what was said in a call phones their JC+ and after 5/10/15 minutes is told they (JC+) will have to find in their recorded calls department the actual recording in dispute and then tell the claimant they'll have to phone back in a week or so (seeing the claimant having to go through the same time lag between call being answer by machine and the claimant actually speaking with someone) by which time the department hopes to have found the recording, listened to it and be in a position to deal with the disputed matter. This feels long enough just typing it out on my key board.

I have the feeling that a claimant in this position is going to find themselves being asked to apply in writing for a copy of the recordings made regarding any dispute they have with the DWP/JC+.  Not only this but again I feel sure many claimants are going to find themselves being told, "sorry but we can't find the call you are disputing, could you make your benefit application again, from the start?"

All that I've been saying could be about creating enough wearing barriers to vulnerable benefit claimants that they eventually give up and accept whatever the DWP/JC+ tell them, between exhaustion with the system and lack of money with which to pay the costs of keeping a phone connection to the DWP/JC+.

I might be that if every benefit claimant demanded copies of each and every phone call they made to the DWP/JC+, which I feel those making such calls without their own recording devices should be legally entitled to, the Government would quickly pull back from this attempt to have everyone doing things on line or through the phone.
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: Monic1511 on 13 Apr 2013 03:50PM
Hi Guys

I am not saying that online claims are a good thing just that the government wants it to happen, once universal credit comes in if you need to make changes online you would be best to involve a support group and register your complaints with the MP.

I think its an excuse by the government to sack more DWP staff after all if its online they think no one needs to check it they way the staff do with paper claims  >headbang<

Even phone calls are hellish for some people - my client had only one functioning hand so couldn't hold the phone for the 30 minutes it took to make the claim, the DWP operator was patient with us - he was a geordie accent, mine is glaswegian & I had to repeat everything he said to the client & then give him the answer - on the works mobile  >steam<

As for recording of calls - how do you play them if your software isn't the same as the DWP's  - we got a CD from the dwp but the work has disabled media player on all work machines more  >steam<

Oh the joys of so called progress
Monic
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: JLRRAC on 13 Apr 2013 04:31PM
"I think its an excuse by the government to sack more DWP staff after all if its online they think no one needs to check it they way the staff do with paper claims"

Exactly Monic.

Err might I ask as a fellow Glasgow lad where abouts you're from (no not the street)  :-) in Glasgow I was born in Bridgeton brought up in Dennistoun and then disaster of disasters the family moved to Castlemilk.
Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: devine63 on 14 Apr 2013 01:30AM
Hi Fiz

I am sorry this will inevitably make me appear overly pedantic - I promise I am not trying to "get at you" - just taking an  opportunity to educate people about a common error.

You said: "They are lumped together though health wise, mental health hospitals (long term, now largely closed down) had a lot of residents with learning difficulties rather than main stream mental health."

It is true that many of the old psychiatric hospitals had many residents who had neurological conditions (e.g. I can remember meeting several men with enormously distended heads - caused by hydrocephalus before medics learned how to insert a shunt) and there were also many people with Learning Disabilities (what used to be called Mental Handicaps such as Down Syndrome) in addition to people with the mainstream psychiatric conditions. 
However to my knowledge these hospitals never had patients with learning difficulties - because specific learning difficulties such as dyslexia and dyspraxia generally don't have a global impact on the person and so they were unlikely to have needed to be hospitalised.

this confusion of learning disability and learning difficulty is very common ...

regards, Deb



Title: Re: First P.I.P claim.
Post by: SteveWSW on 14 Apr 2013 12:18PM

this confusion of learning disability and learning difficulty is very common ...

regards, Deb

It is! It's the word "learning" that is the problem, I think.

I was never happy with the "new" terms as either term implies a lack of capacity to "learn" which is not always the case and which leads to a lack of capacity (willingness?) of others to understand what the person with the "learning" issue is actually communicating.

"Does he understand?" gets right up my nose! Yes, he understands everything!

Steve