First I've heard of this- Are PIP assessments going to be videoed ?

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lankou

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I know there are only a handful of us posting but surely you should have heard comments like this already as the campaign was set up.

I was have been campaigning against the sham assessment since before they started to be used. If you can remember that far back charities for disabled people were all for the assessments for some time before the realised they had been sold a pig in a poke.
I made contributions to the government "consultation" at the tiem and there were also heated written exchanges between myself and Peter Lilley because I could see the assessments were going to be a sham before they started to be used.
So over 28 years on you can see why I am disappointed.

Sunshine Meadows

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Lankou,

Thank you for that it led me to a further thought. How can we make sure the DWP, Government and Assessors don't benefit from videoing of assessments at the expense of a claimant? We have to be careful about spin and this being made into a win for the powers that be. After all they are not going to say the allowed the assessments to be videoed so the assessors could no longer get away with lying - assuming that works.

Why do you think 'they' have agreed to a pilot study?

It seems like more mainstream long lived disability rights campaigners could benefit from coming to places like Ouch Too we just need to wake it up from slumber.
 >dove<


JLR2

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''I am despairing at the comments on this thread''

And I'm getting tired of comments such as that one.

Monic1511

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I donít think there has been any explanation as why lankou is in despair or what we have said thatís wrong. 
I think we all agree the assessments are not suitable and going further the benefit itself is flawed but as I have to work within the current rules I have given up with my wish list of how the system works.

The problem I see is that itís hard to create a fair system.
 >dove<

lankou

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''I am despairing at the comments on this thread''

And I'm getting tired of comments such as that one.

The video/soun recording will not be compulsory if the claimant does not want it.
If you felt you have been kicked in the face after 28 years of campaigning you might come close to how I feel.

JLR2

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Come on Lankou, will you behave yourself for a minute?  Just what is it that has been said that has suggested any of us do not want recording of these assessments?

Can you tell me if a claimant facing assessment can refuse video assessment recording but still have the right ask/demand to audio recording?


lankou

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Come on Lankou, will you behave yourself for a minute?  Just what is it that has been said that has suggested any of us do not want recording of these assessments?

Can you tell me if a claimant facing assessment can refuse video assessment recording but still have the right ask/demand to audio recording?

They already have the right to demand a recording, but until recently the DWP/Contractors had been using every trick in the book to prevent what is a claimants legal right.
That apparently is changing (I will believe it when I see it, the claimant being able to opt out if they so wish.
But frankly given the massive safeguard to the claimant why anyone would wish to opt out as appears to be the case on this thread is depressing.

Sunshine Meadows

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But frankly given the massive safeguard to the claimant why anyone would wish to opt out as appears to be the case on this thread is depressing.

That is a big statement Lankou.
I would not expect a person to be depressed at what we are saying but they you go you are depressed by it and that is okay.

Each person having an assessment needs to decide what the best course of action is for them and part of that is knowing having the video assessment is not  necessarily going to stop what you call verballing.

To be fair I need to mention I have a interesting in criminology and we each interpret the world around us. They are currently people who are in prison based on evidence that was videoed during interviews. Me knowing that does not make me say video is a bad option but I do believe it needs to be understood for what it is.

Sunshine Meadows

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PS

Is videoing assessments going to add extra costs to the assessment process both for the DWP or to welfare rights organisations?


JLR2

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''But frankly given the massive safeguard to the claimant why anyone would wish to opt out as appears to be the case on this thread is depressing.''

I have not read a single posting Lankou, that has argued for opting out of recording assessments. However what is being questioned is having the choice between being audio only recorded or video recorded. It has to be asked, that if a claimant is wishing to opt out of video recording but not audio recording, will they be faced with a situation that the assessor tells them it is audio + video recording or no recording at all?

One simple solution to this could be for claimants under going assessments would be for them to be asked through the paperwork process/form filling which method of recording they prefer to have used in their assessment recording.

Monic1511

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You can get your ESA assessment recorded, itís one of the last questions asked on every form.
Canít remember anyone who said yes but itís a choice they already have.

JLR2

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You can get your ESA assessment recorded, itís one of the last questions asked on every form.
Canít remember anyone who said yes but itís a choice they already have.

Good morning Monic, I guess the form has changed since I last saw one as I cannot remember seeing that question on  mine,  >erm< maybe I missed it :-)

My question would be, where a claimant is being asked on the form in front of them if they want their ESA assessment recorded, is there a choice between audio alone or must it be video recorded or not at all?

I would not be at all surprised if McVey's folk have discussed much as we have some of the plusses and minuses of video recording. For the DWP to now be all of a sudden so keen to push videoing the assessments where previously they were in no great hurry to push the Atos's of this world to provide audio recording has me thinking they, the DWP, have looked on the negatives we have talked about and seen these same negatives as plusses.

I can see the DWP, under McVey, using their idea of video recording as another tool to make face to face assessments as intimidating as possible for claimants.

lankou

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I would not be at all surprised if McVey's folk have discussed much as we have some of the plusses and minuses of video recording. For the DWP to now be all of a sudden so keen to push videoing the assessments where previously they were in no great hurry to push the Atos's of this world to provide audio recording has me thinking they, the DWP, have looked on the negatives we have talked about and seen these same negatives as plusses.

I can see the DWP, under McVey, using their idea of video recording as another tool to make face to face assessments as intimidating as possible for claimants.

The DWP have HAD to give it to the FACT, that NOT sound recording and videong assessments is breaking the law.
That is why the change.
As for assessments that are being sound  and video recorded being stressful for claimants it isn't as stressful living with no income.
The stress will be on the liars and bullies doing the assessments, and it will rid the process of the rotten apples.

JLR2

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''The DWP have HAD to give it to the FACT, that NOT sound recording and videong assessments is breaking the law.''

''The DWP have had to give to the fact, that not sound recording assessments is breaking the law.'' would be more accurate Lankou but as you yourself have said in an earlier posting assessing contractors had sought to use every tool/excuse they could find to avoid providing audio recordings of assessments, without facing prosecution or penalty.

''As for assessments that are being sound and video recorded being stressful for claimants it isn't as stressful living with no income.''

Yes Lankou, it is stressful for claimants to live with no income but that is no excuse for the not so subtle intimidation by the DWP.  Given we have the proven history of almost criminal assessment reporting by Atos assessors not to understand that where a claimant is scared/very nervous of the videoing of their assessment leaves them vulnerable to facing the same original lies and fake assessments if they do not accept video recording of their assessment, that Lankou is intimidation at its finest.

DWP providing video recording for all DWP assessments is all well and good but leaves, without protections in place for claimants, things open to question as to why the DWP have rather than sorting out the assessment providing companies failures to provide even audio recording of assessments in the first place began introducing video recording. Could it just be that they are aware of just how intimidating and off putting video recording would be to many claimants?

I would not be surprised in the slightest to find it has been the assessing companies who suggested using video recording, just for many of the negative issues from the point of view of the claimants we have spoken about in this thread.
« Last Edit: 25 Sep 2018 09:45AM by JLR2 »

lankou

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''The DWP have HAD to give it to the FACT, that NOT sound recording and videong assessments is breaking the law.''

''The DWP have had to give to the fact, that not sound recording assessments is breaking the law.'' would be more accurate Lankou but as you yourself have said in an earlier posting assessing contractors had sought to use every tool/excuse they could find to avoid providing audio recordings of assessments, without facing prosecution or penalty.

''As for assessments that are being sound and video recorded being stressful for claimants it isn't as stressful living with no income.''

Yes Lankou, it is stressful for claimants to live with no income but that is no excuse for the not so subtle intimidation by the DWP.  Given we have the proven history of almost criminal assessment reporting by Atos assessors not to understand that where a claimant is scared/very nervous of the videoing of their assessment leaves them vulnerable to facing the same original lies and fake assessments if they do not accept video recording of their assessment, that Lankou is intimidation at its finest.

DWP providing video recording for all DWP assessments is all well and good but leaves, without protections in place for claimants, things open to question as to why the DWP have rather than sorting out the assessment providing companies failures to provide even audio recording of assessments in the first place began introducing video recording. Could it just be that they are aware of just how intimidating and off putting video recording would be to many claimants?

I would not be surprised in the slightest to find it has been the assessing companies who suggested using video recording, just for many of the negative issues from the point of view of the claimants we have spoken about in this thread.

I really have been wasting my time for the last 28 years. (Seriously.) 
The DWP and contractors have been backed into a corner, basically they have given in, but are not likely to admit that.
I susepect they have become scared because to the number of deaths related to wrong assessments and other DWP activities
(They have been trying to keep their own investigations into it secret but have failed.)

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dwps-secret-benefit-deaths-reviews-investigations-into-deaths-double-in-two-years/

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dwps-secret-benefit-deaths-reviews-universal-credit-death-linked-to-claimant-commitment-threats/