Have I got this wrong? ESA and Universal Credit

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Monic1511

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Thanks for putting up the link, the relevant bits are “they must continue to carry out your work related requirements “ now for most of the members here you hopefully won’t have work related requirements but the single dad who works part time and works 16 hours, his claimant commitment will probably say he has to increase his hours and so has to keep job searching. 

I understand that this forum users might not have these concerns but UC is meant to replace both working tax credits and child tax credits so these rules will affect millions of people and it’s all hidden behind the headline “ less complicated as one payment “ headline.

I just recall the single dad who refused to take a night shift job and was sanctioned, we won the appeal but it took 9 months for the appeal tribunal to be heard.

Frances

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Now I am totally confused makes me glad I am an OAP.
At least my pension is Ok !
I still seem to be getting DLA but not the highest. Which is crazy but like Ryan I was so ill at time I just couldn't fight it
But where Ryan stands I don't Know he has just been given PIP for 6 years. But not the full amount. £ 468 monthly I think. He got high on either mobility or care can't remember which.
He gets ESA support group,after a lot of messing about. He gets £382.every 2 weeks.
He tells me I had put the wrong amount so have adjusted it.
Hope it OK now >lol<
 How they expected him to work when he can be fitting for hours at a time most days. It is crazy,  At least we can manage on it ,
 Paying for care privately means its only £10 an hour so we have 3 hours a week.
The council charged Ry £25, a week for 2 hours, Mine was £70. fo 4 hours.
Half the time they never turned up and still the money was taken from our account, This way She gets paid monthly a total of £120. Much better .
« Last Edit: 15 Oct 2018 04:23PM by Frances »
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Monic1511

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ESA support group claimants have NO work related requirements and the claimant commitment will be very basic and you won’t have to look for work

JLR2

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''Under Universal Credit a claimant can go abroad for a period of a month for any reason, a
longer period of up to six months temporary absence abroad is also allowable for reasons of
medical treatment''

This looks pretty much as things stand under ESA support group benefits Lankou, thanks for posting the info you did. I do as best I can to avoid falling foul of the Habitual residency test hence my allowing the 12min weeks between visits to Germany.

lankou

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''Under Universal Credit a claimant can go abroad for a period of a month for any reason, a
longer period of up to six months temporary absence abroad is also allowable for reasons of
medical treatment''

This looks pretty much as things stand under ESA support group benefits Lankou, thanks for posting the info you did. I do as best I can to avoid falling foul of the Habitual residency test hence my allowing the 12min weeks between visits to Germany.


I suggest reading ALL of the link I posted.

Frances

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ESA support group claimants have NO work related requirements and the claimant commitment will be very basic and you won’t have to look for work
Thanks a lot that puts my mind at rest !!
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JLR2

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Read it Lankou and the attached pdf link. Having read it I understand that things so far as my visiting Germany are not changed and will not change should I be migrated to UC.

Frances

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Ryan told me I got the amounts wrong so have adjusted original post,  >doh<
He says I am a Wally !!!
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lankou

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Read it Lankou and the attached pdf link. Having read it I understand that things so far as my visiting Germany are not changed and will not change should I be migrated to UC.

But they are changed for as lot of claimants who will be effectively trapped in Britain whilst they remain on UC.

Monic1511

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This is the text of the link lankou provided and it is very helpful in my view - you might feel scared by it but I put the whole link there so that you can see why YOU MUST read your CLAIMANT Commitment IF YOU end up on UC

Thank you for your Freedom of Information request of 23 October 2015. You asked:
I wish to ask what approach the DWP will take as and when a claimant on Universal Credit requests to take any kind of holiday.
 There are provisions in the existing Jobseeker's Allowance Regulations in which a person may be treated as actively seeking employment but there appears to be no such provision in the Universal Credit Regulations.
 How does DWP propose to deal with exactly the same issue under UC? What variations will be allowed in conditionality, under what circumstances and for how long?
 If someone is working but still subject to work conditionality, will the leave provision in their contract of employment be taken as a basis for allowing time off? Under JSA rules, a claimant can go away within the UK for up to two weeks but cannot usually leave the UK or their claim will be closed. The claimant still needs to comply with the rules of JSA and can be asked to look for work whilst they are away. 
 
Under Universal Credit a claimant can go abroad for a period of a month for any reason, a longer period of up to six months temporary absence abroad is also allowable for reasons of medical treatment. However, if a claimant chooses to go on holiday in Great Britain or abroad they must continue to carry out the work-related requirements as set out on their Claimant Commitment.
 
No allowances are made within the conditionality regime for claimants going on holiday.  For example claimants within the All Work-Related Requirements Group with no restrictions on their availability will still be expected to be immediately available to attend a job interview or take up an offer of employment, even if this means cutting short a holiday. They are also required to attend their normal appointments and failure to do so will incur a sanction.   
 
Being on holiday would not be considered by a DWP Decision Maker as good reason for not carrying out any work search or availability requirements.

 
Regulation 11 of the Universal Credit regulations 2013 sets out that a person on Universal Credit is able to leave the UK for a period not exceeding a month (or not expected to exceed a DWP Central Freedom of Information Team
e-mail: freedom-of-information-request@dwp.gsi.gov.uk Our Ref: VTR4569 DATE: 3 November 2015
month). This can be extended in certain exceptional circumstances. However, this provision does not exempt a claimant from work related requirements as set out on the Claimant Commitment  Here is a link to the regulation: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/11 
If you have any queries about this letter please contact me quoting the reference number above.   
Yours sincerely, 
 
 
DWP Strategy FoI Team

Sunshine Meadows

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Thank you for all the information so far  >star<

Read bits like

Quote
Under JSA rules, a claimant can go away within the UK for up to two weeks but cannot usually leave the UK or their claim will be closed.

Makes me think the rules have not really changed so much as the intent behind them. Back in the 1980s when claims and signing on were largely paper-based I knew if a benefits officer wanted to make life difficult for me they could. However I dont think there were the same incentives to dot every i and cross every T

Monic1511

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Hi
the difference under JSA was that you were rarely contacted at 10.00 and told you must attend an interview at 1.30 in the next city.  Nor were you expected to jobsearch for 35 hours in a week.     Many people on JSA would sign on, fly out for 10 days and be back in time for the next sign on,  under UC you have to log in daily and be available for immediate interview.   

Problem with this is UC covers people who were getting working tax credits and not just the people who get job seekers, Conditionality is the biggest concern because you have to accept a claimant commitment to have your claim accepted and very few people read these.

I routinely point out to people who rely on public transport that they cannot accept a claimant commitment that says they will accept any job any hours as that means they could be sanctioned for not taking a job with a 2am start at the airport - there is no public transport at 1.30am so you'll have to get a taxi and that's too expensive on a minimum wage job.


I will try and find an easily posted link on the different types of conditionality.

Have you seen Frank Field tonight on the news asking McVey whats her answer to the people taking jobs in the red light district as the jobs from the work coaches are not suitable?

JLR2

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''Have you seen Frank Field tonight on the news asking McVey whats her answer to the people taking jobs in the red light district as the jobs from the work coaches are not suitable?''

Just caught it on the BBC's web pages. McVey totally ignored the point Field was raising going on to talk about 'work coaches' giving advice, I wonder what the advice is going to be?  Where the best places are to sell sex or the best places to buy condoms?  McVey really is not the full shilling. Does she honestly think any of these women want to admit to anyone what they feel forced to do?  None of these women look to prostitution as some sort of career move.

Now I don't know if I'm just thick but so far as I can make out if and when I am eventually migrated to UC I would be being migrated from the support group which does not require me to seek employment, has this or is this being changed to read that on moving to UC I will be required to be available for employment?
« Last Edit: 15 Oct 2018 09:51PM by JLR2 »

Monic1511

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If you are migrated to support group you would have no conditionality that related to jobsearching. You would still have a claimant commitment and will be likely to have new WCA as the can trigger these at any time.

JLR2

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If you are migrated to support group you would have no conditionality that related to jobsearching. You would still have a claimant commitment and will be likely to have new WCA as the can trigger these at any time.

Thanks Monic, that is how things are for me now under ESA. Currently I complete and return the BF5 form (for temporary absence abroad) to the DWP a few weeks before I am due to leave the country. There has been occasions where I've phoned the DWP to request this form that I've been told by the person I've been talking to that they have made a note on my file and I will not be called for a WCA whilst I'm away.