what is the difference???

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huhn

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what is the difference???

  • on: 22 Apr 2019 05:03PM
what is the difference between a homeless and a person that looks for  shelter?
 for me is it  the same but our  minister for  social  welfare  says we have no homeless we have only a lot  of people that are searching for shelter.

and here is the article to it
Today, there is not one person living on the street, not even one homeless person, but there are people seeking shelter, and it is to these persons that the ministry responds to immediately, housing them temporarily in hotels,” Emilianidou added.

Also fending off criticism, Interior Minister Constantinos Petrides said that the responsibility for the delay in the government’s proposals for a new housing policy lies primarily with the previous government.

In statements after the meeting, the chair of the committee Eleni Mavrou said that while the homeless are increasing and more are living in despicable conditions, “we witnessed today the unacceptable stance of the interior minister.”

She said he committed to producing a new housing policy last January, but was still speaking of studies and announcements, without concrete solutions or implementation timelines.

Mavrou added that the “extinguishing solutions” given by state services may temporary soften the severity of the issue but they do not constitute solutions.

The government, must move “beyond excuses and attempts to deflect responsibility”, and present immediate concrete policies and long-term housing programmes

KizzyKazaer

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Re: what is the difference???

  • on: 22 Apr 2019 05:20PM
Quote
what is the difference between a homeless and a person that looks for  shelter?
 for me is it  the same but our  minister for  social  welfare  says we have no homeless we have only a lot  of people that are searching for shelter.

There's the answer to your question right there - 'people searching for shelter' sounds a lot 'better' for politicians to put out rather than an emotive word like 'homeless'.  It's just tinkering with language really:  bit like describing 'unemployed' as 'people looking for work'. And the very real everyday problems faced by disabled people become... 'challenges'  >erm<

On the edge

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Re: what is the difference???

  • on: 23 Apr 2019 10:41AM
Quote
what is the difference between a homeless and a person that looks for  shelter?
 for me is it  the same but our  minister for  social  welfare  says we have no homeless we have only a lot  of people that are searching for shelter.

There's the answer to your question right there - 'people searching for shelter' sounds a lot 'better' for politicians to put out rather than an emotive word like 'homeless'.  It's just tinkering with language really:  bit like describing 'unemployed' as 'people looking for work'. And the very real everyday problems faced by disabled people become... 'challenges'  >erm<

What I can say is in the city I am in 60% are NOT homeless but beggars.  Some want money for drugs, others for drink and some who... just want money they don't even pretend to be or look homeless.  Shelter said 61% of people on the street they offered help to then refused it, or, left after 1 or 2 days to return to the streets.  We have 4 'regulars' here who are known to commute from flats in the burbs quite unashamed to then park up outside an ATM or supermarket with a dog they pass between each other etc.  There are genuinely homeless, but we don't who they are frankly.  Perhaps if they carried authorisation like the those selling the magazine have to?    Also, we have 1 pro beggar who commutes between cities.  I don't give them money myself, as this would mean me aiding and abetting addiction. I do suggest they contact Shelter or the local charities that offer them help, but I got abuse for that and accused of being uncaring.  The overall result s we are being swamped by 'tent cities' springing up, and it is deterring shoppers and investment too.  The only answer is state intervention insisting they take support provided or else.  'Travellers' the Romanies get it.

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: what is the difference???

  • on: 23 Apr 2019 10:56AM
I read the opening post yesterday and it took re reading it and reading Kizzy's post to get my brain in gear.

Homeless refers to a home, a home is generally a permanent place to live not just a place to stay temporarily so it gives the person living there a sense of stability and ability to plan for the future. Just about everyone no matter how poor will seek to furnish and decorate their home in a way that pleases them. A home is where you can store and use all your personal possession. Ideally a home is a place where you feel safe and secure physically, emotionally and spiritually.

A place of shelter has a roof, generally it is not supposed to be permanent place to live , might have shared facilities eg toilet and place to wash. It is a place where you physical body might continue to function but it seems to me the ability to have a home life and go to work is limited.

huhn

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Re: what is the difference???

  • on: 23 Apr 2019 12:29PM
we are missing here a lot of  say normal state run  welfare support, here is it mainly family or friends  who step in.  but looks like in towns it  gets a real problem, normally old empty houses or building sites where easy accessible but now they are much more secured. without the support from my children i were also  homeless, falling through the welfare network.

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: what is the difference???

  • on: 25 Apr 2019 09:23AM
On the Edge,

Where did you get that Shelter information from? I Googled and found this https://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/1594281/Impact_report.pdf but no reference to the statistic you gave.

I have not had the same experiences that you had with homeless people and beggars so it would be hard for me to judge them the way you do. For me it comes down to the protection of vulnerable people first and also helping people at risk of being vulnerable. If the statistic you gave is correct why do you think people are turning  down help?

I realise my above statement shows a bias when it comes to who gets help, the problem is there is not enough help to go around so there has to be some sort of criteria. 

Huhn,

Here in the UK we now have an anti squatting law that makes the use of empty homes much more difficult and at the same time people who can afford it are buying houses as investments and deliberately keeping them empty. This article has talks about the issue and also the possibility of taxing people who have second homes https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/02/13/123-billion-property-barely-used-britain-experts-call-empty/

I am glad you children helped you  >bighugs<

Fiz

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Re: what is the difference???

  • on: 26 Apr 2019 05:47PM
Sunshine is right in that homeless refers to the number of people looking for a home of their own. So this number includes people living in (long term) temporary housing, sofa surfers, people given 2 months left to leave their rented property but for 2 months at least are well housed, people living with family/friends and the family/friends want them out so understandably  the number of homeless people is very high. Roofless people are people who sleep in doorways, underpasses, tents in bushes etc. There are an increasing number of people begging despite not being roofless, many have a roof over their heads and they are claiming benefits and sit in busy areas during the day to gain extra money. Roofless people rarely beg. If you drive around a 3am the people you see sleeping in sleeping bags etc are the true roofless people, the others who have been around through the day are now tucked up in their beds. It's such a sad situation because roofless people need support but the exploiters are preventing people from knowing who really need their help and who don't. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p06r9xbq/fake-homeless-whos-begging-on-the-streets

Lots of churches in the city provide hot meals through the week and hats, scarves and socks and carrier bags. Before my mobility problems became too bad I helped out there sometimes. I think giving money to homeless charities is a good way to help.

The reason people reject shelters is touched upon in the BBC programme. It's a dangerous place to be if you have money. A local 20 year old had a full time job and lived in the shelter. He was kidnapped, tortured for hours to hand over pin numbers to his bank card, they kept him alive and tortured until a pay day arrived so they could access that money they then killed him and his burnt out body was found in a burning wheelie bin. Many people are too scared to live in night shelters, it's much safer on the streets.

I daily feel thankful for my home.

JLR2

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Re:

  • on: 28 Apr 2019 07:42AM
"what is the difference?"

"minister for  social  welfare  says we have no homeless we have only a lot  of people that are searching for shelter."

On that basis the figures could be huge as I could see those even with a home being classed as looking for shelter as they visit numerous estate agents having sold their present home and are looking to buy a new property as they upsize or downsize.
« Last Edit: 28 Apr 2019 07:43AM by JLR2 »

Fiz

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Re: what is the difference???

  • on: 28 Apr 2019 08:08AM
If they're still living in their property then it will be subject to contract and they have a legal right to live their until the day of completion once monies are exchanged so they're in a home they own so wouldn't be homeless.

Also there's a difference between being homeless and being accepted as homeless by a local council, it's these figures the government quote. To be accepted as homeless you have to have nowhere legal to live (hard one if someone leaves their spouse due to domestic violence with their children, the council has no DUTY to house them as their name is on the deeds of a house so legally they have somewhere to live. A solicitor would take moves to remove the perpetrator from the property or remove the victim from the deeds so that the parent and children could be housed in their home or by their council. If in the weeks it would take to do that the parent and children had no one to take them in, children's services would place the children in temporary care under a voluntary basis ie unhindered access to the parent until such time as the parent can be legally deemed to be homeless and therefore the council would have to help find them housing.)

A council has a duty to house a parent with children if they have lived in that district for a set number of years, to reduce the amount of housing available to immigrants most councils set this at 10 years. They must have no legal residence ie their name neither on deeds or tenancy agreement. The council has a duty to house vulnerable people who have no legal residence and have lived in that area for the set number of years. That is usually people with a disability or a person with support needs. The families a council place in temporary accommodation for lack of property to house are also included in the homelessness figures so those people may actually be house. And the numbers include people in bed and breakfast waiting for housing.

On the edge

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Re: what is the difference???

  • on: 05 May 2019 11:53AM
On the Edge,

Where did you get that Shelter information from? I Googled and found this https://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/1594281/Impact_report.pdf but no reference to the statistic you gave.

I have not had the same experiences that you had with homeless people and beggars so it would be hard for me to judge them the way you do. For me it comes down to the protection of vulnerable people first and also helping people at risk of being vulnerable. If the statistic you gave is correct why do you think people are turning  down help?

I realise my above statement shows a bias when it comes to who gets help, the problem is there is not enough help to go around so there has to be some sort of criteria.

Huhn,

Here in the UK we now have an anti squatting law that makes the use of empty homes much more difficult and at the same time people who can afford it are buying houses as investments and deliberately keeping them empty. This article has talks about the issue and also the possibility of taxing people who have second homes https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2019/02/13/123-billion-property-barely-used-britain-experts-call-empty/

I am glad you children helped you  >bighugs<

The numbers are locally quoted ones.  On a personal note giving them money is of no help to the genuinely homeless and encourages begging.  My area has just introduced fines to them all but how they intend to collect is a mystery. We are going to need absolute proof of homelessness and then lobby the system to rehome and support them, since throwing a few quid at it won't work, what nobody wants are these people camping on our streets.  As regards to squatting, I cannot condone lawbreakers or opportunists who would abuse it.  If you are saying it's OK for people to enter empty houses and stay there I am not sure I agree with it.  It usually ends up with anti-social behaviours and huge mess created.  Neither of which assist joe public to emphasise.  Like migrants, there seem huge issues on who is genuine, so it is with homeless are they or not? or addicts looking for their next fix? just beggars?  I have no doubt there are those with mental health issues, there I think we should pull them straight off the street and treat them.  because 2 days ago we saw one sad woman begging filmed urinating in full view of shoppers at midday on our high street removing her clothing to do so offending public decency she is STILL there would money help her?  Anyone that complains gets called uncaring and cruel but the pat approach of them doing nothing useful either belies the whole context of it, meanwhile they continue to populate our high streets.  They don't need empathy or a handout, they need practical help, not sympathy.