Aye Brexit it is

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JLR2

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Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 30 Sep 2019 12:43PM
An analogy in respect of the government’s Brexit strategy, it is not tantamount to rushing the wiring of an electrical plug just to get it done? Get the wiring wrong and you could be faced with a shock or possibly burning the house down.

Monic1511

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 30 Sep 2019 05:27PM
I wish it was done already, I don't want to leave on a no deal but the majority voted to leave so that's what we should be doing.  None of the current incumbents of the commons are fit for the job but I cant see any sane person wanting to stand.  An MP is now hated by at least half of the constituents who seem to feel they can abuse, threaten and attack that person and their family without any consequences.   That is wrong,  no one should be under daily death threats for doing a job no matter how much you disagree with them.

The next general election will be a mess as so many don't see any point in voting and there are the "never voted in my life" bunch who really get on my nerves.   Just make a mark on a bit of paper even if it says none of the above would be better than this apathy.  Not voting leaves the field clear for the extremists in my view.

SteveX

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 30 Sep 2019 06:59PM
I've been saying for many years now that the ballot papers should have a "None of the above" option.

The reason there is no one?  imo its because the politicians are terrified of how many people would tick it.
as for Brexit, I am sick to the back teeth of hearing about it every damn day.  The majority voted to leave then let us leave but for gods sake get on with it.
Member of POMMAS

JLR2

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 01 Oct 2019 07:53PM
Let me begin by saying I do not want to start a row with anyone here on Ouchtoo.

As I'm seeing things at Westminster it is not a case of politicians looking to stop Brexit, well apart from Jo Swinson, what they are trying to do is prevent a no deal Brexit. Johnson it seems is determined to see Britain leave on the 31st and I have my suspicions that this is more to do with very wealthy people who have invested is some cases apparently billions of pounds on a no deal Brexit being achieved with the result the pound is shorted and they can make huge profits through the financial markets.

Johnson strikes me as appearing terrified of the prospect of failing to get this bonanza for these wealthy people seen through as he will be the target of their anger and quite possibly revenge, particularly if some lose billions in the process.

Let's suppose for a moment my theory behind Johnson's push for Brexit by the 31st is right and Britain is left in a state of chaos with the financial markets in turmoil what will he do?  Well I could see him very quickly doing a David Cameron and getting out of British politics. I could see him on an early fight to the US where he can make best use of any rewards that may come his way from those who stand to benefit as a result of his actions as PM in Britain.

I for all that I've been saying can understand why it is that many feel fed up with the way this leaving the EU has taken so long and the extending of the process by 3/6 months with no actual guarantee that anything will change, in other words we end up with yet another date for leaving with again another 11th hour decision to be called for. I suppose, wearily, what will happen eventually is we will see either a general election+2nd referendum on leaving or 2nd referendum+ general election date set.

Me personally?  I'd like to hear that a date has been set for a 2nd referendum, not for Brexit but for Scotland regaining its Independence.
« Last Edit: 01 Oct 2019 07:59PM by JLR2 »

JLR2

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 01 Oct 2019 09:40PM
Here I go with my conspiracy theories again >biggrin<   As it has not happened yet I'll make a prediction of sorts, any vote of no confidence being called in Johnson or his government would, I could imagine, see those 'rebel Tories' who lost the whip for voting against the government voting against the opposition and instead with the government.

In effect the opposition might just be being fed a con, sleepers in their midst if you understand my meaning. I'm sure I've heard it mentioned on the BBC's political programs that should these rebels vote with the government (and the DUP) the opposition's vote could be lost. Although these apparent Tory rebels have lost the party whip they have not actually been thrown out of the Conservative Party and consequently are still Tories with the right to vote in any internal Tory Party votes and with the Party in Parliamentary votes of no confidence. Having these folk sitting alongside opposition MPs whilst they discuss their options to fight the country being taken out of the EU without a deal could be compared I guess to having a Trojan horse sitting in plain sight amongst them and with no certainty that their discussions are not being made known to such as Cummings and Johnson.

One thing we have knowledge of is when the first rebels made their apparent defections to the opposition benches they still could not find it in themselves to work with other opposition parties in a constructive manner to the benefit of their claims to be doing all they could in the interest of the country. I must add much the same could be said of some Labour rebels motives. Unfortunately the Blair governments saw a heavy blurring of the lines between what it was to be Labour or Tory, Blair himself I believed was then and always will be a Tory.

In much the same way as Johnson has been prepared to do anything to become the British PM likewise so was Tony Blair even if it meant joining and campaigning for the Labour Party. Putting it this way Blair knew he would have an easier path to the top of the Labour Party than the Conservative Party due to the level of competition he would face. In the Tory Party he faced the likes of Cameron and Osborne in Labour Brown? Ed Balls and the like?
« Last Edit: 01 Oct 2019 09:53PM by JLR2 »

JLR2

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 03 Oct 2019 06:21AM
I who knows little if anything at all would like to predict that if Labour some MPs, Kinnock for one, vote in favour of Johnson's deal the Labour Party will be finished.

Monic1511

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 03 Oct 2019 08:19PM
Is the Labour party not finished already - just because of the way they cannot handle the press, the media portray them as anti Semitic, and the SNP portray them as the red tories in Scotland.   Boris Johnson has been good for Jeremy Corbyn in my view because if that fool can be PM then the socialist back bench allotment holder could be a decent PM.

No matter when the election is I will make my decision nearer the time.

JLR2

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 03 Oct 2019 09:32PM
Hi Monic, I tend not to see Labour as anti Semitic I do understand there are those amongst the Labour Party who have voiced opinions that in some communities may come over as anti Semitic but the party itself I doubt is.

In Scotland Scottish Labour took their vote for granted, maybe in the days of Ravenscraig, our coalmines and busy shipyards on the Clyde they could do that with some semblance of reason but with the decimation of the heavy industries came likewise the decimation of the Labour vote. No longer were the younger voters voting as their fathers/mothers voted. The younger generation suffered the impact of the Thatcher years and witnessed first hand the impact on their lives and prospects.

When Labour decided to stand alongside Conservatives in the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum they more or less sent a message to Scottish voters, the message being know your place it will be for Westminster to decide what is good for Scotland.

Re Jeremy Corbyn and his being made PM albeit temporarily Jo Swinson has decided that her being seen as some sort of tough and important political figure across the whole of the UK (primarily with the aim of boosting the Libdem vote in England) is more important than the interests of the people of the country even to the point that Johnson might succeed in achieving his sought after no deal brexit.

Swinson will rejoin, in coalition with the Conservatives at the first invite. The idea that Swinson just, it would seem, cannot or refuses get her head around is that a temporary government of national unity could be formed with Corbyn as PM with the limited remit to get an extension to the brexit withdrawl talks and then hold a general election/2nd referendum.

Something that has crossed my mind over the last couple of days has been the idea that it might have been a better idea for the government to have sought to change the rules with the agreement of the EU where the ability to agree trade deals outwith the EU before the brexit date reached. Had this been agreed the government could have put before the country a choice, stay within the EU or leave with the trade agreements the government had put in place to come into effect on the country's leaving the EU. Had this been done we might have seen such as the Irish border question sorted out some time back.

Or am I just being daft? >biggrin<
« Last Edit: 03 Oct 2019 09:43PM by JLR2 »

oldtone27

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 04 Oct 2019 03:27PM
No you'er not being daft, but as I remember during the hiatus following the referendum the EU promulgated the 'rules' under which it would negotiate and declared no trade talks until the 'divorce' settlement was agreed. May incompetence lost the any negotiating advantage. As she was a Remainer I suspect her motives. She certainly showed no enthusiasm for leaving.

Monic1511

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 04 Oct 2019 08:45PM
Hi
I agree Labour took voters in Scotland for granted and as the independence movement grew they didn't have an answer to what is good about the union where the SNP can blame Westminster for everything.

Im not convinced that independence is the way ahead - I know that you are but that's your choice, I get frequent lectures from my brother on why Westminster is evil and everything is their fault. 

I am sick of Brexit being a smoke screen that once we get rid of Europe's rules everything will be brilliant in the UK because all the foreigners will leave.  In poorer areas the line was that if we get rid of the cheap EU labourers then UK workers will have jobs - conveniently forgetting that lots of UK people refused to do the work which is why the EU workers came here in the first place.  The money for the NHS was a lie as EU funding was used in lots of poorer areas - I personally know 40 staff who have lost their jobs due to the end of EU funding but who cares - they were only council workers in projects so not valued by the higher ups and joe public thinks a council job is for life.

People forget we have a capitalist society and the person with the money normally runs the show as profit is king, Im not convinced the SNP will change this mantra if independence does come in.   In 1 way I couldn't care less but I know I should.  my low mood is getting worse with all this palaver.  Doesn't help that my council employer has to find 24 million in cuts so there will be restructuring and job cuts to deal with in the next wee while. >steam<

JLR2

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 04 Oct 2019 10:05PM
The 'divorce' settlement so far as I understood things had been settled, though not paid so far as the financial aspect (39billion) of it is concerned. What appears to have brought on the hiccup was the British government trying to buy a free trade deal through the threat of not paying the money along with the other issues surrounding EU citizens rights and the Irish border. Had the British government focused on getting these things done I think the country would have been able to begin trade negotiations with countries outside the EU.

Monic, I'm simply keen to see my country Scotland regain its Independence. It may be the case that I find myself regretting things if an independent Scottish government turns out to just as incompetent as the Westminster one we have now. I tend not look on the Westminster government as evil, sure it has done many things I disagree with but then over my 5+ decades I have also seen it do things which I am thankful it did do. The recent introduction here in Scotland of the "Smacking ban" is something I'd rather the Scottish government had not put through. I think there is a world of difference from the mother who slaps her little child on the back of his/her legs as she pulls the child out of the path of a moving car driving down a street or the father who gently spanks his child telling them not to try to play with burning coal.

I think it was yesterday on the BBC's Breakfast program I heard a woman who supports this smacking ban say, in response to a father who was saying it was better that he smacked his child telling his child not to put his fingers through the wires covering his electric fire, "Well that depends on whether the fire was on" I mean  just how daft does she have to be? Pedantic does begin to describe her comment. I am not ignorant of the fact there is out there some really nasty parents but to make it criminal to chastise a child is going too far. What will be the situation to be faced by a caring parent who's child suffers serious injury at home, in their garden or even in the bathroom through the child's lack of awareness as to the hazards in every home?  How often have we read stories of children mistaking medicines for sweets?  How will teachers be able to cope with those children who are old enough to be aware of this new law and use it to wind up their teachers?  I know that for me the fear of the strap was bad enough but what was even more frightening was the idea my Mum would get to hear about it...and tell my Dad >yikes<
« Last Edit: 05 Oct 2019 08:37PM by JLR2 »

Monic1511

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 05 Oct 2019 08:02PM
JLR2
I watch the Scottish Government a lot and they irritate me - the phrase couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery comes to mind.   We had a chat from a MSP yesterday where he was gleefully telling a room full of welfare rights officers that the right to advice and advocacy was a statutory right.  Oh no its not as council funded advice services are the first to be cut when the cuts come in as they are not a statutory service.  He corrected himself after being told several times that he was wrong as the right to advice only applies at central government level not at local level.   Our council cuts are £24million so guess we will have less welfare rights and money advice services. 

There are many things I don't like about independence and the continual AUOB marches feel like the anti Brexit mob.
We are in the last palaver of Brexit and the next stage will be when reality descends and the folk that travel to Europe start to notice the barriers going up.   

JLR2

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 05 Oct 2019 08:47PM
Monic, I have for some time now wondered about the effectiveness of protest marches, personally I doubt they have much effect on what happens in respect of the issues protested about. At Westminster the building has, I'm sure, enough sound protection to protect MPs being troubled by protesters. Hitting the government where it matters would I feel have more effect, for example anything that sees an impact on treasury income would bring about more reaction from any government. It could be things such as what happens in France when fishermen block ports or their transport infrastructure sees blockages hitting the tax department's revenues, then you see the French government getting around the table to honestly look at the substance of what the people are protesting about.

The most irritating thing I have found about the Brexiter protestations has been the complete t****r  whom we can hear on his megaphone shouting "stop brexit" as we try to hear BBC/news reporters trying to interview or report from Westminster. When I hear that clown shouting baseball bats are never far from my mind and were it the case I lived anywhere near Westminster I would share my baseball bat with him, least he could have a taste of its varnish. (If what I have just posted is of any offence please either let me know or feel free to delete it, it is just how I feel about the megaphone idiot).

Regarding statuary rights I have not so much thought of them as such but thinking back to when Labour were in government under Blair and how I dreamt things for those on disability benefits would be a bit more straight-forward and fair I never expected the continuation of Thatcher in Labour clothing which is what Tony Blair was and though things were ramped up under (cough/spit) IDS the same would probably happened in the course of Brown's tenure as PM. It is all too easy to forget what the Labour shadow sec of state for work and pensions said on tv when she told us all how Labour would be tougher than the Tories on welfare benefit claimants, a government led by Corbyn likewise will have its version of the DWP and just as happened with the Cameron/May and will happen under Johnson the DWP budget will face cuts to fund pie in the sky schemes.

Life's hard under Westminster government it is going to get harder.
« Last Edit: 05 Oct 2019 09:15PM by JLR2 »

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 06 Oct 2019 09:22PM
Quote
The most irritating thing I have found about the Brexiter protestations has been the complete t****r  whom we can hear on his megaphone shouting "stop brexit" as we try to hear BBC/news reporters trying to interview or report from Westminster.

Oh how I agree with you there - stupid little attention-seeker, I'd happily stamp on his megaphone...

As for Brexit itself, it's anyone's guess how things are going to turn out at this stage of the game.  What is the rest of the world thinking, I wonder?

>edit to add quote
« Last Edit: 06 Oct 2019 09:25PM by KizzyKazaer »

JLR2

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Re: Aye Brexit it is

  • on: 06 Oct 2019 09:45PM
I'd put his megaphone so far doon his throat he'd be thinking twice before of breaking wind >biggrin<  Actually come to think of it chances are that that clown is why so many people tell the media they want to see an end to the whole Brexit saga, they just want the idiot to shut up, and no I don't mean Johnson, Johnson's beyond help.

In part I feel the world just looks with half an eye at their news stories or sort pieces in their newspapers having already decided what the British government is doing to Britain is plain daft. One of the problems, in a round about way, is the fact that we have in the US a President who does not seem to be the full shilling and as folk see and hear the nonsense that has been coming out of the Whitehouse since his election they, the people, have become inured to supposedly educated people behaving as they have been recently. Trump and more and more Johnson appear to really believe they are above the law. It is going to take courage for a Politian to stand up to their respective head of government and it will need to be a Politian from either governing party, Republican or Conservative to do it. For the sake of both countries democracy it needs doing soon.
« Last Edit: 06 Oct 2019 09:52PM by JLR2 »