Author Topic: Treat your home as a court room, tribunal appellants warned  (Read 313 times)

lankou

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Live links at link:-

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/4204-treat-your-home-as-a-court-room-tribunal-appellants-warned

Treat your home as a court room, tribunal appellants warned
Category: Latest news
 Created: 17 April 2020
People taking part in hearings are warned that they must behave in their own home as if they were in a court room, as 85% of all court hearings move to video and audio.

Figures released by HM Courts & Tribunals Service (HMCTS) this week show that:

On 6 April 2020 around 85% of cases heard in England and Wales used audio and video technology
Between 19 March and 6 April 2020, courts and tribunals reported that the use audio in hearings increased from around 100 to around 1850
Between 19 March and 6 April 2020, courts and tribunals reported that the use video in hearings increased from around 150 to around 1100
Guidance issued by HMCTS on joining a video or telephone hearing warns appellants that during a hearing, even though they are in their own home, they must follow the same rules as if they were in a court room, including:

only drink water
no eating
no smoking or e-cigarettes
make sure the view behind you is blank or neutral
If you need to move away from your screen or phone during the hearing, ask permission.
If you need to have someone with you who is not a legal representative, you must ask the courtís permission.
Appellants are also warned that: ďItís a criminal offence to record or publish any court hearing without authorisation.Ē

You can find guidance on taking part in telephone and video hearings here.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-join-telephone-and-video-hearings-during-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak

You can read the full figures on video and audio hearings here.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals-data-on-audio-and-video-technology-use-during-coronavirus-outbreak


Sunshine

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Does this include DWP Tribunals and Employment Tribunals?

lankou

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Monic1511

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Yes it does
All Glasgow appeals are now phone hearings and as rep I donít like it, I havenít seen the clients and have only spoken to them on phone, itís not idea preparation for the appeal. My first set were this week with senior judge, longtime gp and a disability person. 
1 yes and 1 no but the no person talked themselves out of benefit but panel couldnít make an informed decision on the mobility as the never saw them.

Next set again next week  >crying<

JLR2

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Ah suppose there'll be a slight chance of someone asking a friend to pose as themselves during phone calls, much as there was a spate of folk taking driving tests and sitting examinations over the last few years.

Sunny Clouds

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Hideous thing to be happening to people.

I can relate to the people talking themelves out of the benefit.

A couple close to me.  The woman is not very bright but not learning disabled.  IQ maybe 85-90ish?  Perhaps even higher, but she' not what I'll call savvy or streetwise.

Anyway, he was having his PIP assessment at home.  He'd had DLA for years.  He'd told her to stay out.  She walked in halfway through, just as he was being asked if he could drive.  "Of course he can drive, we just can't afford a car."  She couldn't understand why he lost his mobility.

I tried to explain as simply as I could that it was a trick question.  Everyday meaning of "Can you drive?" is "Do you know how to drive?"  PIP meaning of "Can you drive?" (which they don't tell you) is "Can you drive safely, reliably, repeatedly and in a reasonable time?" which he can't.  She felt awful about it.  It nearly ended the relationship and I think it would have if she hadn't been so obviously devastated by what she'd been tricked into.

But if that had gone to appeal (he couldn't face an appeal), his pain would have been evident in court.  You can fake a lot but not being white as a sheet with pain.

It must be absolutely heartbreaking for you, Monic, not to be able to provide your usual level of support because the set up makes it impossible.  Bless you for caring so much.  I hope that doesn't come across as patronising or anything - I mean it.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Monic1511

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Can you drive in pip scenario is saying you can multi task, concentrate enough to handle a lethal weapon, make split second decisions and navigate in unfamiliar places. Folk tell me they only drive routes they know but the traffic must be different every time.

My person only had mobility but the gp notes indicated they did a treadmill test with no obvious discomfort, that according to the doctor was an indication that they could walk for five minutes without heart problems, thatís a quarter of a mile if the average mile is walked in 20 minutes.
Other issue was unfamiliar places but they disclosed a 6 day driving holiday which the driving was shares. Translates as can drive in unfamiliar places and since it was a manual car they had to do gears clutch etc.  

I have to review that and see if I can rescue it but I doubt it.   >crying<

Doesnít help I donít drive as I canít so itís hard for me to relate and the person kept saying but Iíve been driving for 40 years so itís second nature.  Pip is for daily living tasks weíve been doing since age 3 but we struggle with some of them.  I wish I could get folk to understand the complexity of pip, telling the truth doesnít get points as truth depends on your perspective. Donald Trump thinks he is truthful and that obviously not accurate

JLR2

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Monic, I think I remember reading somewhere, maybe the disability handbook, that driving or being able to drive is not a deciding factor in DLA assessments as it had been decided by those who decide these things that driving is pretty much like learning to ride a bicycle once learnt sort of that's it. I suppose it's a bit like asking someone if they know how to walk?  answer yes but I don't stop to ask my individual limbs and muscles one at a time to do their bit. 

Monic1511

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Hi
JLR2
there are several caselaw commissioners decisions that mention driving and how it shouldn't be used as an assessment of ability to function.   The problem is as one doctor put it "you're telling me that you can drive to work every day but you cannot make yourself beans on toast?"  Appellant "Yes"

That client did win but that's how bad it can be.

I try to keep the ability to drive out of cases but if the person themselves introduces it then they have opened the door to questions.   In the recent case if they appellant hadn't mentioned the driving holiday I could have got away with it as they were just going to work and driving in familiar places but holidays are best never mentioned in my experience.

Tribunals can be funny about driving and one person was warned that the tribunal was a court and if they were telling the truth about the number and frequency of their diabetic hypos and the fact that they drove 3 times a week they were admitting breaching the rules about driving after losing consciousness - they were adamant that they had 4 hypos a week but drove on the days they didn't have hypos, totalling missing the point about driving and loss of consciousness.  
The doctor and judge reported them to the DVLA, cant remember if they got an award but I thought they were exaggerating the number of hypos.

I will see what my client wants to do but I have to say I don't like telephone appeals

JLR2

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Good morning Monic, I can understand why a doctor would ask questions such as the one you mentioned perhaps the answer provided should be along the lines of, 'though I know how to drive I don't'.

Regarding the claimant having hypos, well between what happened in Glasgow when the ignorant bin lorry driver blacked out at the wheel killing a number of people in George Square and my own experience of making my declaration, as required by Law to the DVLA, about my diagnosis of temporal lobe epilepsy has me feel the claimant sounds like a selfish individual who does not think about the danger his continuing to drive puts other in.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Treat your home as a court room, tribunal appellants warned
« Reply #10 on: 22 Apr 2020 01:40AM »
There's an article in the Guardian about video court hearings disadvantaging disabled people.  Published today (Wed 22 April). 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/22/court-hearings-via-video-risk-unfairness-for-disabled-people
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)