Author Topic: esa50 and descriptor help  (Read 5231 times)

pennycillin

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esa50 and descriptor help
« on: 22 Nov 2011 08:46PM »
hi
 just thinking in advance here..

but there is a discriptor that fits my symtoms in the esa50. However its in the physical desciptiors and the sorce of this limitation is mentalh health realted.

i read that you cant use a pysical health discriptor to describe a mental health condition and visa versa, but what if its not that simple. my mental health causes me to collapse and alter conciounes which is a phyiscal health condition?

and theres not an eqvialnt box in the other one.

sory for typing, stil not good, and hurting etc. i know i shouldnt be worrying about this at the moment, but hey, thats me...

Sofie

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #1 on: 22 Nov 2011 08:51PM »
Quote
i read that you cant use a pysical health discriptor to describe a mental health condition and visa versa

I've not heard of this before.

If your mental health issue (as you say) affects you physically, then I see no reason why you couldn't tick the relevant box.

JLRRAC

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #2 on: 22 Nov 2011 09:06PM »
How about ticking both boxes?

Monic1511

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #3 on: 22 Nov 2011 09:42PM »
Hi Penny
fill out the form with as much info as you can and if its "can you walk"  tick it varies or no and in the box put "I can occasionally do this but when I have a episode I lose the ability to do this.  I cannot do this task consistently and often am unable to do it at all.

Its like can you walk 200 meters - well after a seizure I can barely walk 10 and my co-ordination is away to pot, on a day without seizures Im fine - followed up with I average 1 seizure every 2nd day.   thats the sort of way I'd phrase a fluctuating condition

I hope that helps - Im tierd and might not be making sense  >erm<
Monic

Sofie

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #4 on: 22 Nov 2011 09:45PM »
Monic - I do understand what you're saying.

Offworld

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #5 on: 23 Nov 2011 04:10AM »
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How about ticking both boxes?
... and added notes cross-referencing both (or more) ticks to each other?

NeuralgicNeurotic

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #6 on: 23 Nov 2011 09:25AM »
pennycillin, I have taken a quick squizz through the photocopy of my completed ESA50 which the advice worker provided me with, and nothing regarding my psychiatric condition appears in the physical descriptor boxes, despite the fact that my MH problems do have physical implications, so it may be that what you have heard about keeping the two separate is correct.

I have to start preparing for CPN now, but will post something more detailed later on, if it would be any help.

ESA50 really is pants for describing MH conditions. 

loopy_s

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #7 on: 23 Nov 2011 11:08AM »
B******cks to the form.  >angry<

Tick any and all boxes that apply to you. Explain what happens as best as you can. Repeat yourself if necessary.

I know for a fact that I put in physical reasons in the mental health part. But that was because there were things that hadn't been covered that I had siginificant problems with and for some reason only appeared in the mental health section  >doh<.

It comes down to this. When you've finished filling in the form you should have mentioned every single symptom that you have and every single problem that you encounter in your every day life. It isn't your fault that the form doesn't fit you.

Best of luck filling this in.

Edit: I got put in the support group. So hopefully this isn't totally stupid advice.
« Last Edit: 23 Nov 2011 11:12AM by loopy_s »

pennycillin

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #8 on: 23 Nov 2011 11:22AM »
thanks

i have a feeling that despite THEM taking ten weeks to iniate my claim.. it wont take them so long to send me a ESA50 and medical out.


be prepared and all that...

Hurtyback

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #9 on: 23 Nov 2011 11:27AM »
Penny, I have reado on B+W that you cannot use the physical descriptors for things caused by mental health problems (but not vice verse). However, I agree with Loopy - we need to make the forms work for us rather than trying to fit ourselves into their boxes. Use whatever descriptors seem appropriate to tell them about every symptoms and health problem you have. Repeat yourself as often as neccessary and don't ever assme that the Decision Maker has an ounce of medical knowledge (or even common sense)!

Pentesalie

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #10 on: 23 Nov 2011 02:41PM »
Penny,
How about the option to tick the 'It Varies' box, and then use the space underneath to explain the 'how and when' more fully to get across to the decision maker how your mental health has physical aspects to it.

pennycillin

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #11 on: 23 Nov 2011 11:45PM »
i fit in the collapse or altered state of conciousness causing signifcant distress box, but its a mental health cause..

basically it goes like this.

i havent been myself since august. i will imagine when penny comes back thats gonna cause her a significant ammount of distress :) it happens more than once a day, its a permanent state. and i as a different part also go in and out of conciousness when i get in pain, and that can be daily too..

its a wonderful life tobe me...

JLRRAC

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #12 on: 24 Nov 2011 01:12AM »
" Repeat yourself as often as neccessary and don't ever assme that the Decision Maker has an ounce of medical knowledge (or even common sense)! "

Chris Grayling has assumed that Decision makers have 'medical knowlege' as he has said that where claimants find themselves declared fit to work following their Atos assessment they can take or present further medical evidence to the JC+ DM who will go through what Grayling referred to as the, "Reconcideration process". 

moggiemum

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #13 on: 24 Nov 2011 01:40AM »
I would agree with those who say write in both.

If your mental health causes physical problems then you should note them in the physical space, just make sure you write description in the box for that task that it is caused by mental health but is a physical symptom. If you only write in the mental health space they may not actually make the link that the symptom is a real physical reaction. If the 'rules' then wont take what you've written into account they will just ignore it. if they will take it into account then at least it is there.

And as most above have said, repeat it where ever it is relevant, whether you repeat twice or ten times, at least they can then see this affects 2 or 10 areas not just one.

fairysparkle

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Re: esa50 and descriptor help
« Reply #14 on: 24 Nov 2011 10:02AM »
Hi Pennycillin, bottom line is this - you physically collapse. It does not matter the trigger ( there can be other conditions like migraine, epilepsy, etc, that an emotional trigger could be part of).

It sounds like - emphasise the physical affects of the collapse in the appropriate box. Then later on, in any MH boxes, emphasise the triggers of the collapse, and then the affect it has on you.

e.g. I have a condition X that means I collapse frequently. (followed by relevant details). This affects my ability to concentrate, and my mobility.

In MH section: Strong emotion can cause me to collapse. I am anxious whenever I am walking, as this can be a danger to my health. I get scared about how people will react, and whether or not I am safe. It is not easy to treat this condition, because the triggers are complex, and involve my emotions.

BTW, if any condition affects me frequently, and on a daily basis I have to make allowances for it, then I don't tick the 'it varies' box, I tick 'all the time'. The condition might fluctuate, but what I have to do to manage it may be constant. I also have a condtion that mkaes me collapse, and the really fun part is I have no diagnosis, so I just emphasise what I can.