Paying for advice and help when claiming benefits.

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dustyflower

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A thread was started using the content of an email sent to members of the Benefits and Work website and while there was some discussion on topic the thread itself ended up being more about whether people should have to pay for benefits advice or it should be free.

To see how the debate started and  moved please look at the posts below... it will take a few minutes for me to move the posts.

 :-)
Sunshine Meadows







now, if you look at who wrote that, IE benefits and work, and the motive behind their propagandic style...

it becomes just as bad as a daily mail article.

the facts are:

There will be doctors and nurses and HCP's on the front line.

These companies who are bidding are after the money.

They will be mainly dealing with the adminstration of the medicals, where they will be held etc.

These companies do many things. I mean why use that particluar thing as a headline when serco also run rubbish collection, (be a good headline, after all resigned to the rubbish binand all)

The emails tat I get from this particular group are always full of fear, panic and alarm. They do nothing to help people but focus on the negative.

At the end of the day, the best 'company' to run the DLA medicals (if we should have them) are the DWP themselves and not an outside provider.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:45PM by SunshineMeadows »

hossylass

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Two things;

1) Atos, for all their sins, have never been involved in human abuse cases ( as opposed to leaving people feeling misjudged by being contractually obligated to do so)
2) If you dont like B&W, dont get their emails.

Comparing B&W to the DM is one of the most ridiculous statements I have read. I am wondering why you are being devisive towards an organisation that has supported many over the years. Divide and conquer perhaps?

By definition they are all in it for the money, but these are truely awful companies to deal with, corporate giants that have committed numerous atrocities and rarely held accountable. They are all in the Boys Club of Dave and George.

As for the DWP, perhaps some of you have selective amnesia about them altering claim forms to deny people benefits. They were so dumb that they even did it in a different coloured ink...

The Nazi connection is true - not the escalation to death camps, but the propoganda campaigns that allowed sick and disabled people to be loathed as economically unproductive and a drain on the German economy.
Helps if we try and remember ALL the things the Nazi's did, not just the later years.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:39PM by SunshineMeadows »

dustyflower

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i just dont llike the tone of their emails, pretty much how i dont like the tone of your reply hossy.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:46PM by SunshineMeadows »

dustyflower

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ok, I will be more accurate.

Their emails are written in a tone of fear, and at every opportunity they are trying to get people to sign up for their services. It is targetting a vunerable group of people and preying on their emotions. You may say its not a lot of money, but when every penny counts, yes it is.

They are a private company, trading n peoples fears for profit. Advice on how to claim benefits should be and is freely available. It is companies like these (and the governments and public perception of them) that are being used to justfiy welfare reform.


« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:48PM by SunshineMeadows »

hossylass

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Do you know anything about B&W history?

It seems not. Originally Steve gave the information away for free, but the site got so big and he needed to pay for legal advice and staff, so hence charges.

"Companies like these" as you put it have never been used to justify welfare reform.
What actually happened was two ex-sema GP's were charging people to do their forms for them, and there was some whistle blowing going on, and some degree of fraud.
Fuck all to do with Steve. Fuck all to do with B&W.

And its not a lot of money - less than 10 a year to access top quality advice, that is legally correct, unlike many other sites that charge for information.
Its not a lot of money for the reassurance.
And its fuck all money when people like me pay for it and then impart it for NOTHING.

Do you live in a bubble? This message board is a professional associate of B&W so that the posters here get the best quality help and advice.

And also do you not realise that most people, unless they are scared witless, wont bother finding out about things until it is too late?
How many people have you seen turn up on boards like this, asking for advice after they have cocked up, instead of finding out before?
You yourself are very aware that these are both frightening times, and also that people are apethetic - beliving that it wont happen to them.
Sometimes you really have to frighten people to force them to help themselves.

Maybe you prefer the  other option of asking people to do this for nothing? Thats good of you :(
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:48PM by SunshineMeadows »

hossylass

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You may not like the tone of my posts, in which case you can suck it up or go away.
You know you are just being contentious, which is fine, but you dont actually know what you are talking about, which is not.

If you were giving a valid view, I would be happy to disagree.
But clearly you have some jaundiced opinion that you wish to pursue on here, without being in command of the facts.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:48PM by SunshineMeadows »

Sofie

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And its not a lot of money - less than 10 a year to access top quality advice, that is legally correct, unlike many other sites that charge for information.

I'm sure it's nearly 20 a year? I can find a lot of that information online for free. I've just looked at their website and it's 19.45 per year.

Quote
Its not a lot of money for the reassurance.
And its fuck all money when people like me pay for it and then impart it for NOTHING.

It can be a lot of money if all you claim is benefits.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:48PM by SunshineMeadows »

hossylass

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Its half price after the first year.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:49PM by SunshineMeadows »

myrtlemaid

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I think that B and W is pretty good value if you dont know much about benefits and need accurate accessible information.

Its all very well saying its information thats available elsewhere free but like all info on the net not all of it is uptodate and accurate and to be honest Im not well enough at the moment to differentiate the good from the bad. So Id tend to stick with Band W because it has a good reputation and presents its info in an easily understanable way.

I know little about its history but I do know it was a huge help to me when i wanted to be guided thru my DLA forms and paying the money seemed like a good investment if it helped me get what I was entitled to,

Im sorry but it irritates me when someone forgets that not everyone is able to scour the net for this sort of info in a discriminating way and make sense of it .
No one has to buy in if they dont want to... no one has to receive their emails.. its like buying anything, only you can decide if its worth it to you or not.

For me bad mouthing a company like B and W saying basically they are exploitative is like saying the Lottery company is exploitative.. people mostly CAN make decisions about what they spend their money on whether they make ones we agree with or not they have to be allowed to do that
 
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:49PM by SunshineMeadows »
If you have a true and loyal friend you indeed have a goodly share of lifes riches

dustyflower

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its a shame you have to resort to personal attacks in an attempt to win an arguement. It kinda makes your points invalid...
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:49PM by SunshineMeadows »

myrtlemaid

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its a shame you have to resort to personal attacks in an attempt to win an arguement. It kinda makes your points invalid...


Who do you feel is personally attacking you?. all I see is people robustly discussing things.. isnt this what this site is for ?
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:49PM by SunshineMeadows »
If you have a true and loyal friend you indeed have a goodly share of lifes riches

hossylass

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Attempting to spread invalid information about a site that actively supports us is a bit more shameful.

You attack B&W then you are effectively attacking this site too.

You can, as Myrtle points out, chose not to interact with B&W.
I will however correct you if you are wrong on here about them.
I guess this is your latest study block...

I am amazed that you think that the voluntary sector should do this role - I guess thats because you are not the one having to spend your time giving this advice and paying for it with using your own spoons to do so, and sacrificing your own time.
The information is only freely available if other people search it out and make it so. Somone has to sacrifice their time to do it. And to make sure that the information is valid, and that the guidance works, and that it is legal. All that costs time and money.
As I said, Steve spent his time and money until he was skint, and then had to charge to pay his staff and himself.
On lots of boards staff are paid, paid to moderate, paid to research.

Good luck with your lastest college assignment, but please stop bringing it on here.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:49PM by SunshineMeadows »

pooldenver

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its nice to see a debate  going on, that is what this and other sites are for as well as important information that others like us can find and use
no one is attacking anyone that i can see, that is sometimes the nature of debates, we all have a view if we dont see it the same way that is good.
keep the old brain working, some of the replys to this thred has been light hearted, that is also good.
so lets all have good debates on this site even if we dont all agree,but still come togeather when it matters  >hugs< and watch each others backs or you can wash mine
 >bighugs<
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:50PM by SunshineMeadows »

Prabhakari

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I value Ouchtoo very highly.
People are told about it by me, in the hope that they will pay Ouch a visit.
We are vunerable.

Words can be mis-understood when written on a messageboard.
It is something I have seen happen, many times.
I feel that were we talking, face-to-face, such problems would probably not arise.

When one is ill, tired and in pain, it is hard to write carefully and in detail.
I cannot write for long. I soon run out of strength, so I do not write what I would wish to write.
One thing I hope to write about are examples of rebirth memories.
I know of one that was verified in every detail.

Oh well, I will try to serialise it. 

Be peace, Prabhakari.  >wheelchair<
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:50PM by SunshineMeadows »
Bless 'em all, bless 'em all,
The long and the short and the tall.

Dic Penderyn

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Maybe in another lifetime Prabhakari.
« Last Edit: 11 May 2012 10:47PM by SunshineMeadows »
Be careful in what you wish for, God has a sense of humour