finally! : Domestic abuse to include non-violent control

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boccius

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I personally don't think I could risk it, it would kill me if it ended up as not guilty. ..... For me this legislation means nothing.

I'm with Fiz on this one. Legislate all you want, but if the resources aren't there on every level, then it doesn't help.

Off the topic, but on the point: would you give evidence against a gangster and go into 'witness protection'? I would, but only if all my friends and relations were already dead and thus beyond harm.

A.

nearlyperfect

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Kizzy my heart goes out to you love

Yes of course the help is virtually non existent.   What makes me cross is that PTSD is something which only happens to soldiers.    Today I wrote to a know nothing fool  (well, he is an m.p. so what else would we expect?)    He was the author of an Independent article, stating that he had been a soldier, and thought soldiers should be offered PTSD screening.

I asked him if he had ever noticed the catholic priest scandal, the JS scandal, or the fact half the population are female.   (Clearly not.    As an m.p., he is above noticing mere facts)


KizzyKazaer

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Thank you, Nearlyperfect, and welcome to OuchToo  >biggrin<

What makes me cross is that PTSD is something which only happens to soldiers. 

I think it's better now than it used to be, the understanding - well, it was in the mental health services anyway, who accepted that I had PTSD initiated by their own treatment of me as a teen in their institutions  >doh< ('pin-down' procedures and stuff) and later added to by experiences as described earlier.  Have to say I was a bit of a 'bully magnet' for much of my life, but not any more, not now I understand why.

For a really excellent PTSD 'self-help' book, I recommend 'I Can't Get Over It' - A Handbook for Trauma Survivors' by Aphrodite Matsakis, a specialist in the field.  It covers situations like rape, child sexual abuse, domestic abuse and other crime, and even suicide of a loved one - all can lead to PTSD, not just war and combat.  It certainly made a lot of sense to me  >thumbsup<

Sunny Clouds

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Kizzy my heart goes out to you love

Yes of course the help is virtually non existent.   What makes me cross is that PTSD is something which only happens to soldiers.    Today I wrote to a know nothing fool  (well, he is an m.p. so what else would we expect?)    He was the author of an Independent article, stating that he had been a soldier, and thought soldiers should be offered PTSD screening.

I asked him if he had ever noticed the catholic priest scandal, the JS scandal, or the fact half the population are female.   (Clearly not.    As an m.p., he is above noticing mere facts)
Is this the article you refer to?  http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/routine-screening-would-stop-suffering-8303840.html?origin=internalSearch

He says "for instance" where he refers to veterans.  I think the reference specifically to the example of veterans is appropriate for Remembrance Sunday, just as it might be to refer to any other group for which there is a particular day or a particular news item or inquiry. 

Quite frankly, I think that to object to an MP picking out the example of veterans on Remembrance Sunday is a bit tacky.  Would you have felt it inappropriate to refer to the example of survivors of abuse on a day when the key news item related to it?

As for "the fact half the population are female"  I am at a loss to see how you feel that the example he gives ignores the fact that half the population is female.  Perhaps you weren't aware that veterans aren't all male?  Curiously, female veterans aren't in any way unusual or rare.  Female veterans can and do get ptsd. 

I suppose there are always people who object to having one day a year when we specifically remember the victims of war rather than the victims of other things. 

I remember an old man I knew who lived in the bedsit next to mine.  He had been a conscript in WW2 doing bomb disposal and many years later, he still had horrendous nightmares and many years later, when he walked to and from his local legion club, he was still mocked by young lads.  One day a year, he put his smart clothes on and his medals and there were people out there who remembered those who died or were injured in war, including the people he fought alongside and against.  For one day a year, he wasn't the object of derision.

Is one day a year so very much to remember such people?

Declaration of interest:-

I am a female veteran with PTSD both from active service and from sexual assault.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

devine63

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One day a year is certainly the least our veterans deserve Sunny!   For me, among other things, it's a day to think of the grandfather I never met because he was killed on HMS Hood in 1941 when my dad was a toddler.

That said, I am pleased to see people like the author of the book Kizzy mentioned are finally recognising that there are many events which can be traumatising

regards, Deb

Sunny Clouds

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Personally, I think the PTSD classification draws the boundaries in the wrong place.

Obviously, the current concept arises out of shell shock then battle fatigue then PTSD as the latest incarnation.  I don't know what will happen with it in the DSMV.

It's been expanded but not, I think, adequately or effectively.

Some people regard BPD as a complex PTSD whilst others want it reclassified as a mood disorder, and if the latter happens, where does that leave us with the long term aftermath of trauma?

Should the notion of PTSD be about a short term thing and the longer term effects be classified not in terms of the initial reaction  but in terms of their long-term effects, and if so, do we lack one or more classifications to put them in?

My gut feeling is that it should be so and that the time factor shouldn't be precise but in terms of the stages of recovery - there's the initial impact then there's whether a long term condition sets in.  If one of the otherwise conditions doesn't cover it, then IMO we need a new classification to fill the gap, not to see the classification of PTSD as something that covers the long-term impact.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

devine63

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I'm not sure I understand why BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder for anyone who's wondering) needs to be re-classified as either a complex PTSD or a mood disorder - it already has its own classification under the personality disorders axis.  As far as I know they are still mired in arguments about DSM V (the diagnostic & statistical manual of the American Psychiatric Association)
regards, Deb

Sunny Clouds

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There are some strong advocates of the idea that BPD is an axis 1 condition not an axis 2 condition.  Personally, I think that there's an argument worth considering that it needs to be reclassified under axis 1 but I'd prefer it to be split into two classifications under axes 1 and 2, distinguishing between the behavioural patterns and the emotional instability.

Having said that, I think the whole concept of a personality disorder needs to be revised with the word personality got rid of.  Behavioural disorder??  The old concept of the personality that's messed up but you're stuck with because personality is of the essence of who and what you are is past its sell-by date.

I don't have a problem with the notion that many people with BPD fit neatly into axis 2, I just think that there are a lot of people who fit the criteria for whom axis 2 is rather missing the point. 
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

devine63

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If they said it was a behavioural disorder that would tend to imply the behaviour was learned from experience: do we have evidence that is definitely the case? (not an area of work I keep up with)   Not everyone with a BPD diagnosis admits to a history of trauma.
Maybe it is more that there are some personality issues and then on top of that the person acquires some more treatable mood / anxiety / obsessional / whatever other disorders?>
regards, Deb

Sunny Clouds

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Multiple layers makes some sense to me.

However, I feel uncomfortable with the distinction between that which is learnt and that which is personality.  I don't believe that personality is laid down from birth.  Yes, aspects of it are genetic, but I don't believe that that's the whole of it and I do believe that environmental factors are a significant part of it. 

I also think that the word personality does lead to this ambiguity.  One person uses it to mean one thing and another person uses it to mean another and that is the very reason why I am uncomfortable with the phrase personality disorder.

However, I take on board your concerns about my suggested use of the word behaviour.  I don't know what other word could be used.

I also accept that not everyone with a BPD dx admits to a history of trauma, which is why I think the current classification is lacking.  I think it lumps together people with quite different issues and mixes together different sorts of problems. 
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

devine63

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Hi Sunny

personality is a difficult concept, psychologists don't really have agreement about it amongst themselves, but broadly speaking the inherited aspects of personality are usually called temperament and the more experiential / learned aspects are overlaid on that.  However it is more usual to consider personality in terms of personality traits (e.g. introvert-extrovert, open-minded -- closed-minded) and these traits vary in the extent to which they are influenced by experience ....   however that is research in personality psychology which is not necessarily related to work in psychiatry...
regards, Deb