Answers to some PIP queries on the mobility aspect

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KizzyKazaer

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(Taken from the 'Dispatches - Britain on Benefits' thread which looked at these aspects of PIP)


« Last Edit: 26 Feb 2013 08:30PM by KizzyKazaer »

KizzyKazaer

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These are the six descriptors that come under the 'moving around' (mobility) activity element of PIP - the number in bold font at the end of each is the maximum points that can be awarded for that descriptor:

A Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 0
B Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided. 4
C Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 8
D Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres  10
E Can stand and then move more than 1 metre but no more than 20 metres, either aided or unaided.  12
F Cannot, either aided or unaided – (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. 12

« Last Edit: 26 Feb 2013 08:30PM by KizzyKazaer »

KizzyKazaer

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Posted by hemiman:

thankyou for that reply Kizzy, i fear i'll get 4 points as often than not i have to park more than 50m from my office but i use a stick to get around. I'm assuming 4 points will get me nothing, i'm more worried about losing my blue badge than the money as my BB allows me to park onsite at work and near to my house, without it i wouldnt get parking on site or be able to park near my house, i may need to park 100s of meters away which is no use to me!!! oh hum what will be wil be i suppose!!!

Posted by Force_Majeure:

KizzyKazaer,

With regards to the following:- F Cannot, either aided or unaided – (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. 12

Does 'aided' include using a wheelchair and moving it more than 1 metre even if you can't stand. Coz most wheelchair users that I know have adapted vehicles paid for by their DLA mobility component. If they were to lose this, then it's not just a blue badge that they'll lose, it'll be their car and therefore their biggest access to independence? Then how on earth are they supposed to be able to pay for a car themselves, never mind the adaptations, even if they are not required it would be impossible to buy and run a car if they lose their eligibility for mobility, under the new criteria for the mobility component of PIP.

So when the government 'learn lessons' from what they class as their 'mistakes' they don't make things better for the people, they make things better for themselves.

Disabled people have begged for their independence but not like this, without support we can never truly be independent.

FM

KizzyKazaer

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In reply to Force_Majeure above: (Hemiman, take note too!)

KizzyKazaer,

With regards to the following:- F Cannot, either aided or unaided – (i) stand; or (ii) move more than 1 metre. 12

Does 'aided' include using a wheelchair and moving it more than 1 metre even if you can't stand.


The definition of 'aided/unaided' for PIP purposes would indicate a 'yes' to this, on the face of it:

Within the assessment criteria, the ability to perform an activity ‘unaided’ means without either the use of aids or appliances or assistance/prompting/supervision from another person.


A wheelchair comes under the definition of 'appliance'.

But, as always with benefits, there is a 'however':  in the claimant's favour, as it happens, because it's not just a matter of simply doing it, end of.  Other factors the DWP decision-maker has to take into account when awarding points, are:

Can the activity be carried out....Reliably, in a timely fashion, repeatedly and safely

An individual must be able to complete an activity descriptor reliably, in a timely fashion, repeatedly and safely; and where indicated, using aids and appliances or with support from another person (or, for activity 10, a support dog). Otherwise they should be considered unable to complete the activity described at that level.

Reliably means to a reasonable standard.

In a timely fashion means in less than twice the time it would take for an individual without any impairment.

Repeatedly means completed as often during the day as the individual activity requires. Consideration needs to be given to the cumulative effects of symptoms such as pain and fatigue – i.e. whether completing the activity adversely affects the individual’s ability to subsequently complete other activities.  (this is an important one, hence my 'bolding' it!)

Safely means in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to the individual, either directly or through vulnerability to the actions of others; or to another person.

Risk and Safety

When considering whether an activity can be undertaken safely it is important to consider the risk of a serious adverse event occurring. However, the risk that a serious adverse event may occur due to impairments is insufficient – there has to be evidence that if the activity was undertaken, the adverse event is likely to occur.
_________

So, as you can see, there are many variables here!

ATurtle

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As I may have stated before on here, or in reply to some article somewhere or other, I find it incredible that "Timely" is not given an actual figure. 

Many people may think that to walk 150 metres in screaming agony and take 10 minute to do it is acceptable, because after all the claimant has moved more than 20m, I do not.

Many people may think that to walk 150 metres in stages decreasing in distance from 20 metres down to five metres between stops as acceptable, I do not.

Why am I using 150 metres? Because that's the distance I have to walk to my local shop to get my gas and electricity cards charged up when the internet/computer is not working.  It's a distance that I have to cover, not one that I want to cover, there is a difference.

What makes it worse is, having taken 10 minutes to walk to get the card charged, I then have to walk back again!  And that's me done in for the rest of the day!   >crying<

Tony.

"I choose not to place "DIS", in my ability." - Robert M. Hensel

davewhit

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As I may have stated before on here, or in reply to some article somewhere or other, I find it incredible that "Timely" is not given an actual figure. 

   >crying<

The nearest I have seen to an actual figure is
"In a timely fashion means the person can do the activity in less than twice the time "

from

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pip-easy-read.pdf

see page 13

ATurtle

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OK, so how long does it take a "Normal" person to walk 20 metres?

10 seconds?  20 Seconds?  So now I have to work out how long it takes me to walk 20 metres. 

Anyone got a 20 metre tape measure and a stopwatch?
Tony.

"I choose not to place "DIS", in my ability." - Robert M. Hensel

davewhit

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OK, so how long does it take a "Normal" person to walk 20 metres?

10 seconds?  20 Seconds?  So now I have to work out how long it takes me to walk 20 metres. 

Anyone got a 20 metre tape measure and a stopwatch?


you will find normal walking time in many medical books heres the calculation you need good luck >cool<


If we assume the average person walks approximately 4.5km/h, we can perform the following calculation: (4.5km/h) X (1h/3600s) X (1000m/1km) =

1.25m/s <-- Converted from km/h to m/s
(100m) X (1/1.25m/s) = 80s = 1min 20s
It would take 1min 20s to to walk 100m 50m 40 seconds so 20 meters is   16 seconds

so twice as long to me would be 34 sends 16 times 2 plus 2   >biggergrin<

I think you will find thats a decent answer

auntieCtheM

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Actually it is more likely to be 3.5km/hr for a normal speed of walking.  That is what the chap said at the gym when I did my induction a couple of weeks ago. 

My speed this week was 0.8km/hr.  I'll see if it gets faster as the weeks progress.

davewhit

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Actually it is more likely to be 3.5km/hr for a normal speed of walking.  That is what the chap said at the gym when I did my induction a couple of weeks ago. 

My speed this week was 0.8km/hr.  I'll see if it gets faster as the weeks progress.

a chap in the gym  >biggrin< no better than a guy in the pub ask a dr and a good chance they will talk of "Preferred walking speed" thats even faster 5kph

using the 3.5 kph you talk of if used to support a claim would not be of help to many people

auntieCtheM

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 >biggrin<

davewhit

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>biggrin<

I see you have worked out why Dr knows best in   this case  ;-)