My Appeal

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ATurtle

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My Appeal

  • on: 14 Mar 2013 10:16AM
The floor shook as the large, and I mean Large, A4 size white envelope hit the floor.  I saw the Belfast return address and my hands started shaking.  I opened the envelope and found 74 pages of A4 paper - the DWP evidence in my case.

Now to reprise the story for those that don't know it, July 2012 and I was called for the Atos Assessment, fortunately in my local town centre.  I attended and waited, two months later I got the result fit for work, apply forthwith for JSA or appeal. I appealed! 

Fast forward to the 23rd of December - brown envelope arrives with a result of review of DLA.  "Because you can walk 130 metres, you don't get Mobility"  >erm< Erm, 130 metres? Where did they get that figure from? Apparantly I had filled in a form and said I can walk 130 metres!  Who says they can walk 130 metres? I mean 100 metres, 150 metres, but 130????  Appeal along with request for their evidence slammed in as soon as possible, not received by DWP until 15 January!

Fast forward again to yesterday, there are these 74 pages of, mostly, double sided copied documentation, as requested.

Extreme lack of spoons made reading it in detail difficult, but I scanned my hand written entries for 130 or "One hundred and Thirty", o where had I written this figure.  So I scanned the type written pages, concentrating on the HCP report from Atos. 

 >doh<

Now, this Atos report is the one that turned my life inside out.  This is the one that says I can bend my bad leg fully and my good leg partially!  This is the one that the 130 metres that stopped my DLA appears in.  I DID NOT say that figure, but, of course, back then I did not know about the recording of assessments, so I have no proof of it!  HELP!

Still, I am off to see my doctor tomorrow, with the report to see what he says!  >x-fingers<
Tony.

"I choose not to place "DIS", in my ability." - Robert M. Hensel

Monic1511

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 14 Mar 2013 09:02PM
Hi Aturtle

What you have received are your appeal papers  - its a copy of your form, the medical report and the information used by the decision maker to come to their decision.

Next you will recieve a letter from the Tribunal Service - a TAS1 form - asking if you wish to continue with your appeal and will you accept a face to face hearing with less than 14 days notice - say no to accepting a cancellation. If you have a rep put their details on the TAS1.

You need to look through the papers - identify things you don't agree with and then ask your doctors for a report.
If your doctor is anything like the ones where I live they will not look at the papers and can refuse to supply medical evidence.
Good luck & please don't panic
Monic

ATurtle

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 15 Mar 2013 12:12PM
Right, the doctor still says some of the tests that the HCP reported but didn't do are amazing, he's explained one query, but I still have a few others.  Like where I carried a bag with both hands, my pills were in a shoulder bag which stayed on my shoulder.

However, waiting for the doctor, I ran through the forms again and found the dreaded 130 metres! I had put it in a form  >doh< it's the DLA80 question 21 that I misread when filling in the form.  "How far can you normally walk (including any short stops) before you feel severe discomfort?" I read that as the total I can walk before I have to finally give in and stop!

Do I let the DWP know that I made a mistake or wait for my appeal? 

So my DLA problem is my own fault and now I don't know what to do!  I've now killed myself walking back from the surgery (300 metres) in two sessions (I cheat and stop in our local newsagents which is half way).  Spoon level -2ish. Pain level +10!

That DLA80 is a minefield!   "Tell us your walking speed" - I'm sorry my built in speedometer doesn't function.  "How fast can you walk a distance" - I can't use a stopwatch and walk at the same time. "Do you walk with a slight limp?" What do you call slight and how can I tell, the left limp balances the right one!

That's just Qs 20-24 as they overlap on two open pages in the folder I am using for the papers they sent me.

The majority of the pack of paper is from my last claim in 2007, GPs letter, Specialists letter, etc.  Then they bring in the Atos report and my DLA80 and resultant kick in the guts.
« Last Edit: 15 Mar 2013 06:49PM by ATurtle »
Tony.

"I choose not to place "DIS", in my ability." - Robert M. Hensel

Monic1511

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 15 Mar 2013 08:24PM
At this stage if you have further evidence (GP letter) send it to the Tribunal Service and the DBC but its unlikely that the decision will change until they put it in front of the tribunal panel.  You might have a better chance face to face at tribunal than a paper appeal which so far has failed

Monic

bubble

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 17 Mar 2013 01:34PM
Hi A Turtle, I just wanted to say, your not alone, we I mean hubby is going through this now, we have put in for an appeal and had the dr report last week, then a letter to say if we want a face to face assessment, etc fill in form we have that sent off last week.

We now have hubbys medical records to argue the ATOS drs report, Im trying my best to put together something to say that they are wrong and he should be in the support group, he was put in the wrag. We are doing this on principle hes on contribution based esa till the 365 days, then would be on means tested esa.

Perhaps we can support each other with this rotten system  >doh< frankly feel like banging head on wall  >steam<

You said "That DLA80 is a minefield!   "Tell us your walking speed" - I'm sorry my built in speedometer doesn't function.  "How fast can you walk a distance" - I can't use a stopwatch and walk at the same time. "Do you walk with a slight limp?" What do you call slight and how can I tell, the left limp balances the right one!"

You did make me laugh IM still chuckling, about the double sided limp balancing out.  >biggergrin<

The Atos dr said hubby walked normally,  >yikes< he hasnt done that for over 20 ys, his consultant orthopaedic surgeons letter says so, and hips are bone to bone.......... hes terrified of hospitals and I mean terrified........... he wouldnt have operations even if he broke both legs.  >doh<

We were waiting to see if  the decision was changed without having to pay for his med records which are in different health authorities and we cant afford to pay for them all............. we have the gp ones now they were 50 will try and get one health authority hospital ones will be another 50 and last November paid for mine another 50.
I still owe my Dad bless him




bubble

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 17 Mar 2013 01:56PM
Monic, to send in further evidence, do we just send in copies of consultant letters ? OR I was going to copy the Atos drs report go through it, highlight, the inconsistences (sorry spelling) and then say for each see attached consultant letter disputing what shes has put in the report.

Can you think of anything else or do you think that will be ok.
Thanks B  >tah<

Monic1511

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 17 Mar 2013 07:47PM
Hi Bubble

If you have your papers then you could send a copy of the evidence and a covering letter saying that you wish to highlight the evidence from your own doctors contradicts the statements on pages 1 5 8 ect.   The JC+ should look at it again before sending it to a tribunal date. 

I would phrase it along the lines of "please find attached extra medical evidence that contradicts the statements on pages 1,2,3. I would ask you to reconsider your decision taking this into account, if you do not reconsider in my favour please forward all the evidence to an independent appeal tribunal"

hope that helps
Monic

ATurtle

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 17 Mar 2013 09:04PM
(After a day out, so spoons fading)

So, next step, borrow money off my Dad to pay the GP for a letter (can I claim this cost back?)

Photocopy both that and the Atos report, use a highlighter to highlight the inconsistencies in the load of trash Atos papers and post both wih a covering letter to Tribunal Service, and DBC? (DBC - Who? Spoons showing).

Should I get enough to pay for copies of my orthopaedic surgeon's records for the tribunal (not having a date for that yet)?  Will I have to wait long for these?  (My hospital notes are about three inches thick).

I don't really want to wait too much longer as it's all getting on top of me (and yes, I know, Bubble, we're all in this together)
Tony.

"I choose not to place "DIS", in my ability." - Robert M. Hensel

bubble

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 18 Mar 2013 08:38AM
Hubby is waiting for appeal date, so its urgent we get these copies evidence in. I'm ru.ning out of spoons too A T.  Hubby wouldn't know where to start, so its left to me with a boggled head, were doing well, NOT...
THANKS Monic, I will try put together today. Can you  any evidence right up to appeal date, or is there a cut off. I'm worrying we have left it late, we hoped decision would have been changed without getting med records, as we couldn't afford to.

Monic1511

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 18 Mar 2013 05:51PM
Hi
ATurtle - (can I claim this cost back?) - no you can't claim this back so I wouldn't ask for your consultants report after all some medical reports are useless when it comes to tribunals

Bubble Tribunals like papers 7 days before but occasionally will ask for it before this in case the disabled member(DLA Tribunals only) is visually impaired.   Some tribunals will accept copies on the day - for ESA tribunals you need 2 spare copies & 3 for DLA ones.

Monic

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 25 Mar 2013 09:59PM
Quote
The majority of the pack of paper is from my last claim in 2007, GPs letter, Specialists letter, etc.  Then they bring in the Atos report and my DLA80 and resultant kick in the guts.

This confirms what was mentioned a while ago on Ouch Too, that the Decision Maker could be looking back into the history of of a claimants case when making current decisions.

ATurtle,

Sometimes I think in cases like DWP Tribunals or Employment Tribunals the powers that be chuck a load of paperwork at the claimant to bog them down in the bureaucracy of figuring out what matters to the case and what doesn't. I do think sometimes presenting an argument on a few facts can be better than a lot of detailed evidence. Reading your other posts about this it seems to be the core issue is what you wrote on the ESA 50 and the HCP's opinion of the assessment you went to. You need to give the tribunal panel a clear idea of why the more recent information is describing the situation wrongly without falling into saying the DWP and their assessments are crap and HCPs can lie.

On another thread when you mentioned 130 metres I wondered (then) about was that actually more like you said 30 feet and the HCP put that down as metres and added a 1 in front.
I remember getting bogged down in my initial ESA assessment trying to remember is I had said feet or yards and worrying that the HCP was Eastern European and so would think in metres.

Bubble,

 >bighugs<

ATurtle

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 26 Mar 2013 05:54PM
The 130 metres is the distance that I push myself to get to.  It's arrived at by...

30 metres ... stop ...
30 metres ... stop ...
20 metres ... stop ...
20 metres ... stop ...
15 metres ... stop ...
10 metres ... stop ...
5 metres ... fall down in a heap and cry like a baby!   >crying<

But, to my untrained mind, this is not repeatedly, takes about 15 - 20 minutes to do so is not timely. So hopefully, I should be able to explain to the tribunal why my ESA and DLA have been stopped.   >confusedgif<

The wording on the form is confusing as it says "How far can you normally walk (including any short stops) before you feel severe discomfort?"  which I read as "How far can you walk including stops for severe discomfort?" as I get to 30 metres in extreme pain.
Tony.

"I choose not to place "DIS", in my ability." - Robert M. Hensel

auntieCtheM

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 26 Mar 2013 08:04PM
Why do you stop at 30 metres?  Are you in pain, discomfort, breathless, too wobbly and about to fall over?

ATurtle

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 27 Mar 2013 04:55PM
Pain, mainly, but stiffness, at 30m it's like wading through ankle deep water (that I can't lift my feet out of).
At 60m it's like being mid-shin level.
80 metres it's up to my knees
100 metres mid-thigh
115 metres hip deep
125 metres waist deep
130 metres it's like hitting a brick wall.
Tony.

"I choose not to place "DIS", in my ability." - Robert M. Hensel

Monic1511

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Re: My Appeal

  • on: 27 Mar 2013 07:25PM
ATurtle
If you are going to appeal tribunal you will need to downplay mentioning walking 130meters.   If it says that on your form you are probably going to lose it unless you get a decent panel and some supporting evidence.
If you are giving the tribunal a written submission you need to phrase it like this
Mobility - For the majority of the time I don't walk properly, I drag my feet and it feels like I am fighting to move.  On a rare good day I can struggle to walk further but the severe pain and exhaustion I am left with mean I cannot walk for the following 2 days.

I hope thats some help
Monic